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Mod to Suedehead

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Well-Known Member

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    The bottom picture is from 1971 ?, very much what lads were wearing in my neck of the woods then..I have mentioned the dark plain BD shirts ( Ben Sherman or Brutus) with a white tie,I remember messing up a pair of loafers trying to make them into two tone ones.
    I bet that all white cigarette is a Consulate menthol one,we smoked them sometimes.
     
  2. yankmod

    yankmod Well-Known Member

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    She can wear whatever she wants,she will always look great.Not a fan.I Respect where they came from (no not Orange Co.)
     
  3. covskin

    covskin Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing the Don't Speak video back in the mid 90s and thinking how refreshing they had got it.
     
  4. yankmod

    yankmod Well-Known Member

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    More Short pants Talk? I wear sewn in turn ups about 1 inch to 1/2 an inch above my Shoe or Desert boots.White Sox only.There are many reasons for this.The light blue of the turn up contrasts with the very dark New Levi's Denim.With Desert boots I feel its important to see the whole silhouette of the boot.Most important if the Cuff rubs against the boot you get a hole at the back where the cuff folds.I get MUCHO Shit from the Local Hillbilly's but It ain't nothin new being the freak. By the way.If you like Clark's Desert Boots (No I don't work for them just OCD) The Desert Jink is a Great Modification.Sadly they are phasing them out.Still many available.
     
  5. yankmod

    yankmod Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    What about Mr. Rowland's High Water Jobs?
     
  6. roytonboy

    roytonboy Well-Known Member

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    The origins of Walt Jabsco........
     
  7. Soul Vision

    Soul Vision Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed, the Wailers' shot is the one normally credited but the other shot has the all important pork pie hat!
     
  8. covskin

    covskin Well-Known Member

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    Why the tendency to dead end things like this? Such and such is 'Ivy', such and such is 'Jamaican', etc. These stop points all seems fairly arbitrary to me, just shaping a narrative*. But why? I see nothing that far removed from western mainstream dress in the above photo. I suspect in Jamaica like elsewhere in the empire/commonwealth it was seen as 'dressing English' but where does that get us.

    Not sure I have seen much in the way of intellectual rigour on such matters. On trouser length there is a mechanical explanation, wear boots and non-bootcut/flared trousers and you need things shortening then change boots for shoes and you have a lot of sock showing then that becomes your trademark (even if someone else has it, convergent evolution). Can someone demonstrate how that is not a sufficient explanation.

    * I am old enough now to have seen some strange narratives shaped
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
    2 people like this.
  9. Natty Pinstripe

    Natty Pinstripe Well-Known Member

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    As far as evolution of the short trouser leg - sock showing phenomenon, I am far from an expert, But I have seen plenty of photos of pre-Rock'N'Roll American Teenagers (both sexes) in rolled up jeans with white ankle socks showing. I believe by some, these kids area considered the "first teenagers" and so I think if one looked for something of weight written on the history/development of the teenage phenomenon there might be something on the subject. Seems to me, it might be one of the foundations of youth developed style.
     
  10. covskin

    covskin Well-Known Member

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    Another thought. Skinhead arose spontaneously over a wide area of England. Jamaicans were not widespread in England. So how did these supposed 'Jamaican' traits get transmitted so completely across England?

    (and you can substitute 'Ivy' for 'Jamaicans')
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  11. Natty Pinstripe

    Natty Pinstripe Well-Known Member

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    A "wide area" is relative term when discussing skinheads surely ? As I now live in New York, I see England as the equivalent of a U.S. "region" with great media coverage. When Skinhead become popular there was a popular national Tabloid press, 3 TV channels and a handful of accessible radio stations. Did it even reach far into Europe in the late 1960's or early 70's ?
     
  12. covskin

    covskin Well-Known Member

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    Skinheads were not promoted on tv, but reported after the event. While I can see how Ivy might get around due to Peyton Place and the like on tv, I don't see that Jamaicans would get much airtime. How do you see short trousers on radio?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  13. Natty Pinstripe

    Natty Pinstripe Well-Known Member

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    Covskin, I certainly don't want to get into a disagreement or some smart alec argument. When they were "new" Skinheads received plenty of media coverage, they were in the Daily newspapers and in the culture in general, inescapable in Saturday afternoon football culture. You are correct that you cannot see short trousers on the radio, but you could hear Desmond Dekker.
    Many of us were the younger relatives of Mods and we were unaware of the influence of Ivy league on Mod, to us Mod just was - no why or wherefore, and like the Mods we looked to Black Culture for pointers, but instead of American musicians we studied the nuances of the local West Indian population. How that played out where there were no West Indians I have no idea, were they slightly behind London or did they just come to the same conclusions ?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  14. covskin

    covskin Well-Known Member

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    All well and good. It is that extra step when particular experience is expanded out into general principle that I am sceptical about. Who was the first person to appoint himself king of all the skinheads and hold forth on these matters? The sociologist Dick Hebdige maybe? A quick look at his Wikipedia entry shows that his approach is to view youth culture primarily as a dialogue of black and white, which is a little blinkered perhaps for someone writing the 'authorised version' of skinhead history.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Hebdige
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  15. Natty Pinstripe

    Natty Pinstripe Well-Known Member

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    For obvious reasons I don't always care for the word "organic", but it's probably the best way to describe my experience of being a kid when the Mod thing was big and a young teenager when Skinheads kicked off (OUCH !). I don't know if anyone was writing from the sociologist angle at the time. What year was "Generation X" published ? Is Hebidge the next "youth culture" writer after ? I imagine people like Desmond Morris incorporated into his studies, but to what degree I have no idea. Even if there was I doubt many, if any of the participants would have been interested in reading it. Richard Allen's fiction were the read of choice and subsequent research points to him being a hack.
     
  16. Soul Vision

    Soul Vision Well-Known Member

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    The point about the Jamaican use of the shortened trouser is that the mods didn't do this as far as I am aware but Jamaicans, either at home or abroad did and I believe people like Prince Buster, Desmond Dekker and the like on tours to the UK would have popularised that look rather than US bobby-soxers. Any look, skinhead or otherwise is the sum of its parts and can't just come out of nowhere, it cannot be denied I don't think that Jamaicans did have at least some impact on the skinhead look.

    As has also been stated in this thread the trends generally started in London and then moved out from there... How that happened is up for debate but in those days I guess 'word of mouth' had something to do with it...later of course as some have said here following the 1966 England World Cup win a lot more football fans travelled to 'away' games and that spread fashions...

    Maybe TV as well, is this Ready Steady Go?

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Soul Vision

    Soul Vision Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this has been on before. From a Colombian trad skinhead forum:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Soul Vision

    Soul Vision Well-Known Member

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    From the same forum though not sure if this is originals or revival:
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  19. Natty Pinstripe

    Natty Pinstripe Well-Known Member

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    SV for the record I was in no way trying to suggest that either skinheads or mods were directly influenced by the bobby-soxers, just that high mast sock showing trousers have and continue to be a recurring theme. As for the Jamaican influence on the original skinheads that is an absolute.
     
  20. yankmod

    yankmod Well-Known Member

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    "Wigan Casino Out Takes" from This England (1977 docu.) 10 min. of Dancing.Great slow motion so you can see the Footwork.Songs not from original so you can make your own playlist.(there are some good tunes chosen) More of the same.First 3 min.patrons entering.The rest is Dancers.Some very fast Footwork in this. I love the Original film but the scenes of the Dancers were cut too short.I like these very long shots focused on one dancer at a time.
     

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