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Meermin Mallorca Shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by asturiano, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. GradSchooler

    GradSchooler Well-Known Member

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  2. othertravel

    othertravel Well-Known Member

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    Is New Rey narrow, or a standard width last with a low instep?
     
  3. leetpuma

    leetpuma Well-Known Member

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    Instep:


    [​IMG]


    New ray
    = C-/B width narrow
    = low instep


    Olfe
    = c/c+/d- width average (Actaully has more room in the toes even though it has an more tapered toe box. To do this the shoe is made a bit longer.)
    = averge instep

    Hiro
    = c/c+/d- width average (Less room in the toes than olfe, I think. And also less tapered in the toes.)
    = High instep
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
  4. svanerik

    svanerik Member

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    @markfjh Congrats mate! Great pictures. How was the fit?

    I've worn mine twice and they feel really good without socks. The belt was too short, on the last hole for me, but I can use it. And I've found out that it looks better than most of my belts, even though it's too short. I am definitely planning on ordering more belts.

    Also wearing my dark brown oxford brouges today... I absolutely love them. I prefer them over my Loake Aldwych any day.
    I need to get them to a cobbler to get toe irons on though, they wear pretty easily. Also the leather sole seems to wear easier than Loakes.
    Anyhow, I prefer Meermins over Loakes any day. I am a very satsified customer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  5. markfjh

    markfjh Well-Known Member

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    I think i could have gone with a half size down without socks :( I haven't actually tried either of them on though, will definitely do so tomorrow or this weekend.

    I must agree that the belt does look pretty good! well worth the money I feel.
     
  6. aussiejake

    aussiejake Well-Known Member

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    I second this, if anyone can make a comparison.
     
  7. Nakedsnake

    Nakedsnake Well-Known Member

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    The cold part of Canada
    Third...
     
  8. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, with all due respect, but this is just to stupid to let go unanswered. First of all, a gemmed shoe will of course also have stitches in the glued canvas rib, making them have the same "weakness" of a stitch around the holes that you talk about, plus the fact that the rib is glued. Secondly, you do know that all shoes are glued too, not just the stitches holding them together? So the pressure is evened out over the whole shoe, whether it's a Goodyear welted or hand welted shoe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  9. Omert4

    Omert4 Well-Known Member

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    I believe you meant "too stupid," with all due respect.

    You are correct that the canvas rib will have stitching, but you forgot about the insole in the hand welted shoe. The holes in the insole will allow for more points of failure.
     
  10. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I missed a letter. Good for you.

    Please explain how holes in a holdfast cut out from a thicker insole of a higher grade of leather allow for more points of failure, than a thin insole of lesser quality leather (or even leatherboard or paperboard in some cases) with a glued on canvas rib with the holes in?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  11. leetpuma

    leetpuma Well-Known Member

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    I would just let it go man.
    You are not going to convince him that handwelting is better.

    Sure if you use space age glue it may/will hold together but nothing seals the deal like an physical bond - Needle and thread.

    Everything is overkill with shoes at this price.
    (I mean seriously i can go down the street and buy 15-20 PAIRS of NEW glued shoes at the local store for the price of one LM meermin calf pair.)

    So i just look at it as if I am paying this much I may as well get the one that logically makes the most sense to me. And that was hand welting for me.

    If he does not share this opinion thats okay.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  12. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    It's all theoretical anyway. Yes, Meermin uses hand welting, but their QC is so bad that people get shoes that are lasted completely wrong, are off center or have other issues that impact durability. All of the advantages of hand welding aren't enough to overcome the disadvantages of bad QC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  13. leetpuma

    leetpuma Well-Known Member

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    100% true you never know what really goes on the the back room of the handwelting operation in china.

    The only way to know for sure would be for one of the people here to do an shoe take teardown to actually see what is actually going on inside. (Any one got a pair of LM meermins that they are ready to toss?)

    (I like to think/believe (possibly incorrectly) even with meermins external QC issues* they have an better product internally b/c of handwelting but like you said this may be a pipe dream. My next shoe will probably be Vass b/c of this.)

    * I should also say i don't care if my shoes come in 100% clean/Scratchless. after one week of wear i put 7-8 miles on them and quite a few wear marks. As long as they can be buffed out i don't really care. Screwing up the lasting process is a big issue to me but I've only seen 1-2 examples of this in the last 2-3 years. And most probably go a refund. Sole splits are also asthetic and not that big of a deal.

    - Also their have been less QC complaints in the past year than before - however, there are more supply chain complaints recently.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  14. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Yes, just didn't want him to spread misinformation, especially in this type of thread were there is a lot of people who are new to this kind of shoes. And to me it wasn't a discussion about Meermin per se, just two types of construction. And as I've stated before, Goodyear welted is a great construction, better than almost everything else, but it's not as good as hand welting which is not in danger where any "holes in the insole will allow for more points of failure".

    There's a reason that the hand welt construction has been around for 500 years, and for why Mr. Goodyear created a technique that copies the construction method with machines...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  15. blackadder

    blackadder Well-Known Member

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    I have no picture, but wanted to report that my first ever pair of goodyear welted shoes - Meermin snuff suede chukkas - arrived today. I know that Meermin is not considered the top brand in the rarefied world of Styleforum, but to me the quality is simply stupendous and the markup is very reasonable for what you get. Plenty of time spent waiting, but worth the wait. I will buy more. I don't understand why anyone wears shoes from the mall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  16. Omert4

    Omert4 Well-Known Member

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    You're the one who started using words like "stupid" and made it more personal than it needed to be.

    The reason in a goodyear welt they can afford to use a lesser quality insole is that the gemming is glued to it. There's nothing wrong with using adhesive. It is used in many industries (including aerospace) and has proven to be durable. It just has a bad stigma around here, thanks to DWFII, who thinks everything should be done the old fashioned way and the incorrect belief many people hold that "they don't make it like they used to."

    Anyway, the thicker insole is not needed in a goodyear welt. In a hand welted shoe since the welt is stitched through it, the holes that the stitches go through will have more localized stressed and the holes are stress raisers. With adhesive, there would be more of an even distribution of force around the insole (which should even make sense to the lay person). Much of what you are saying actually has nothing to do with my original post. I never talked about the durability of a canvas rib or anything of the sort, and I never said one was better than the other. I will say that canvas is more waterproof (less likely to be damaged by water) than leather, in my experience. Again, I am just saying there's advantages and disadvantages to both methods of construction, and I don't think that is an incorrect thing to conclude. You were somehow just offended by my post and completely disregarded what I actually said. Nothing I said was "incorrect" as you are trying to say and you aren't doing anyone any favors by trying to minimize what I've said.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_concentration

    "Geometric discontinuities cause an object to experience a local increase in the intensity of a stress field. Examples of shapes that cause these concentrations are cracks, sharp corners, holes, and changes in the cross-sectional area of the object. High local stresses can cause objects to fail more quickly, so engineers must design the geometry to minimize stress concentrations."

    Now, if you think adhesive is so bad, go buy a Nike shoe and go get a hand welted dress shoe. Go running in them for 6 months, everyday. I guarantee the $50 Nike shoe will have better structural integrity at the end of those 6 months than the hand welted shoe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  17. Omert4

    Omert4 Well-Known Member

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    So do you know the reason Mr. Goodyear did that? Where did he say so? It would seem the motivations behind that were to still have a shoe with an easily replaceable sole, to have a shoe that is more efficient to manufacture, and cheaper to produce. I don't think Mr. Goodyear ever really thought about which shoe would be more durable longterm. But I am just assuming.

    Keep saying a bunch of nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  18. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    Personal and personal, I never said that you were stupid, I just said that your post was stupid. And I still think so, and I still think that you are incorrect. And it's a bit funny that you state that I disregard everything you say (you have to keep my answers to other persons apart from my replies to you), when you write long posts without being even close to answer the questions I was asking or reply to my statements.

    Whether adhesive is good or bad has nothing to do with my questions to you. I wonder how you can claim that a construction method which uses a leather component with holes in it for stitches can "allow for more points of failure" than a construction method with a leather component with a glued on canvas rib which has holes in it for stitches? Please answer that.

    Secondly, as I wrote before, neither a Goodyear welted shoe or a hand welted shoe has all the stress just in the stitches. They are also glued together, every layer is glued to next one, to even out the stress points and make for a stronger shoe.


    Of course Goodyear invented the Goodyear construction to be able to produce shoes cheaper and more efficient. That's exactly my point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
  19. Omert4

    Omert4 Well-Known Member

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    What questions? I don't think you even understand my post or exactly what I am saying.

    At its heart, a goodyear welted shoe relies on adhesive for its overall structure. If the adhesion in the goodyear welt completely fails, the whole shoe falls apart. It's an adhesive based construction. At the heart of the hand welted shoe, it is a stitched construction. If the stitching from the welt to the insole fails, the shoe will fall apart. What you don't understand about that, I don't know.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_concentration

    If you read the article above, You will understand what I am saying when I say the holes in the insole of the handwelted shoe are stress raisers and that it has a less even distribution of force.


    "Of course Goodyear invented the Goodyear construction to be able to produce shoes cheaper and more efficient. That's exactly my point. "

    No, that wasn't your point. Your point was that he copied the hand welted construction with machines because hand welting is great. You're actually not sure nor did you provide a why. You were just trying to play an empty thought to look like more than it really is. It was nothing but fluff.

    I actually had to fill in those blanks for you about possibly why Mr. Goodyear invented the method (just as easy to resole, cheaper to produce, etc), but just because something is cheaper, it does not mean it is any less durable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
  20. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Well-Known Member

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    Come on. You seem like a pretty smart man, how can you just continue to disregard what I write? Yes, Goodyear welting relies on adhesive for it's overall structure, it has both the adhesive part AND the holes and stitches. If the glue that holds the canvas rib to the insole fails, the shoe will fall a part. If the holes in the canvas rib fails the shoe will fall a part.
    In a hand welted construction, you just have the latter, if the holes in the holdfast fails the shoe will fall apart.

    And you still disregard the fact that both hand welting and Goodyear welting also are glued between every layer.

    Try to concentrate when you read this, maybe read it twice or even three times before you reply again, I think that you are capable of understanding.


    The fact that Goodyear copied the hand welting construction to make a cheaper and faster way to produce shoes is so well known that I never thought I had to spell that out. The reason that he copied hand welting is because hand welting is great, yes. It's both correct.
     

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