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MC General Chat

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by dieworkwear, Aug 4, 2012.

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  1. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Well-Known Member

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    I recently wondered the same about women's shoes. I am looking to get a pair of Ferragamos for my sister, and have wondered what elements will require consideration. Knowing they are Ferragamos will probably be enough for her, but how well made will they be?

    At least with hand bags, it is easier to notice the MC hallmarks of quality, not so much with shoes though...
     
  2. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Well-Known Member

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    @dieworkwear

    You know, that makes sense to me. I am in the art field after all, so valuing aesthetics should not be such a foreign concept to me. As such, that will answer my question. Whatever shoe my sister pics will be as good as any other, based on her needs and tastes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  3. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Eugene Rabkin, editor of StyleZeitgeist magazine (a style magazine that largely focuses on "gothninja") penned a piece today in BoF on "what's fashion for."

    http://www.businessoffashion.com/2014/02/cathy-horyn-ann-demeulemeester-thom-browne.html

    It's basically heavily focused on the third aspect of my list - that is, an appreciation for the conceptual dimension of fashion. He's written a few pieces for BoF sort of like this, where he attempts to differentiate fashion from "regular clothing." That is, one is designed with conceptual intent, and the other is not (think, some designer t-shirt vs. a Costco t-shirt).

    I actually liked this piece he wrote against fast fashion, but many people hated it. IIRC, including Fok

    http://www.businessoffashion.com/20...case-against-fast-fashion-collaborations.html

    Anyway, women's fashion isn't hard to understand at all when you put it in context of conceptual design, rather than just focus on the practical function of clothes (keeps us warm, allows us to be socially accepted, etc), or the artisanal/ craft dimension of their production.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
    3 people like this.
  4. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    I was enjoying this piece until I got to:

    ...then my reflex to switch to another tab upon contact with Menswear Mad Libs words took over.
     
  5. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Yea, but you kind of get what he means ...

    It's not easy to cleanly delineate any social thing, but to the degree we can, fashion is more "conceptually" designed than what you'd find at Target. And while costs and sales are obviously important to designer fashion, mass marketing, efficient production, and competitive pricing seem to be the more important drivers for the stuff you see at Walmart of whatever. In other words, you can more easily find commodities at the "mass market" level of clothing (H&M, Old Navy, etc) than you can at Barney's or some obscure boutique.

    And his point is that you're not really buying fashion if you're getting the "cheapened," "watered down" version of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  6. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    My earlier post was too flippant. But WTF is "conceptual intent?" Do Costco T-shirts appear fully constructed by accident? Does Costco scour the universe for these unhappy accidents of quantum physics in the hopes of selling them 3 for $9.99? How much "attention to detail" is required before an item becomes fashion and not clothing? 7?

    EDIT: Posted this before seeing Derek's reply...if the dividing line is whether you first try to design something cool and then figure out what you can make it for and what you can sell it for, or alternatively figure out how much you want to charge and then work from there, that may be a decent rough-and-ready categorization. Although I'm pretty sure Kiton designs by first asking, "How can we charge $10k for a suit?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  7. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how to tag people on StyleForum, where you make a post and they get some notification that they've been mentioned, but someone should "tag" LAGuy so he can come here and eviscerate that article. I think I remember him saying somewhere how much he hated it.
     
  8. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Use the "@" button between the linky thing and the film strippy thing, like this: @LA Guy

    I think some of the best examples of design in the 20th century are mass-marketed or -produced goods though. For example, military clothing. Brand logos.
     
  9. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    "Conceptually designed" is when you design for the aristoi, and "not conceptually designed" is when you design for the hoi polloi.

    In all seriousness, I don't think designer fashion is less business-sensitive. It's just designed in a way that currently plugs into the conversation of concepts, forms, etc.

    People making Costco dad jeans are just making whatever sells. They're not trying to sell you on an image, idea, concept, etc. Nor are they plugging into the bigger conversation on "fashion."

    Do you not agree with that?
     
  10. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    You also need to switch your editor from BBcode editor to "rich text" editor, @dieworkwear
     
  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    "Hoi polloiester?"


    I do agree with that. I'm being unnecessarily stubborn mostly for sport. In practice, I agree that there's less thought going into Costco clothing than "fashion" clothing (except maybe current YSL). But I also think there's value to design even if something is mass-produced. Mass production adds another constraint to the design process, but that can make it more interesting.
     
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Oh wait, I see what you guys mean. The @ symbol on top of this comment text box, right @LA Guy?
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Congratulations. You can also just use the @ symbol if you are using the Rich Text editor. You can adjust that setting in your account settings.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff here, Derek. The only thing you've seemed to gloss over is the presence of rat fur in haute couture. However, I'm sure you'll cover that sooner than later...

    It's taken quite some time for me to begin valuing design as much as (if not more than) "quality." I initially began questioning the value of "quality" when I realized that it means different things to different to different people. And, therefore, is objectively no different than design. You can easily identify shit quality just as you can easily identify shit design. However, when you begin digging deeper, there's no merit to always valuing one over the other, especially considering one's ability to judge either is completely subjective. Things then only become more complicated when you start blurring the lines of utility, art and luxury.
     
  15. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I feel like quality is so often overrated. The aspects of quality I care about usually relate in some way to design - e.g. how canvassing might give a suit's lapels a fuller, three dimensional look, or how a higher stitch count can give something a more refined appearance. With the exception of maybe leather goods and knitwaer, most things I've owned haven't fallen apart. I have J Crew clothes from the 90s that are still perfectly intact. They just look as terrible now as they did back then.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I think I lost all my pocket squares :confused:
     
  17. Kaplan

    Kaplan Well-Known Member

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    Have you checked your pockets?
     
    4 people like this.
  18. GusW

    GusW Well-Known Member

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    Did Spoopoker break in last night?
     
  19. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Well-Known Member

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    Is that a figure of speech, like "I lost all of my marbles"...
     
  20. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    No, it means I lost them. I packed them away for an apartment move, and since unpacking, haven't been able to find them. I put them in an envelope, I remember, but no longer remember where I put that envelope.

    Very sad. I think I had something like fifty squares, which took me years to collect. Lots of pieces that aren't recoverable, because they're unusual designs, like some old stuff Drake's did for Flusser or mid-century designers I found at thrift stores.

    I emailed The Armoury and Drake's to see which designs I might be able to recover. Drake's said only the stuff from last season is available. Going to send an email to Rubinacci to see what they say as well.

    Kind of sucks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014

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