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Lets talk about COFFEE

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Flambeur, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    Also, there is nothing wrong with light roasts at all, but one thing I am firm on is they should be brewed to accommodate the roast profile. Light roasts really shouldn't be pulled as espresso.
     
  2. why

    why Well-Known Member

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    Depends what you consider 'light'. 'Espresso' roasts in America are often the darkest and they make horrible espresso. Medium (really, what seems to be 'light' in America) is pretty optimal for espresso.
     
  3. joshuadowen

    joshuadowen Well-Known Member

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    You are being pretty stupid here. The roasters we work with are not self-taught. They've been in the business for 30 years and run one of the bigger regional roasters. The SCAA flies our guy around to teach people about coffee. Don't talk about things you don't know. I'll agree with you that there are plenty of poseurs out there, but don't think you know anything about me or my business.
     
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    You're generalizing about dark roasts. Sure, some large commercial use it to mask bad beans, but not all of them. You're saying that darker roasts have no place in specialty coffee and that is pretty obtuse.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    I love it when you talk about things you have no idea about
     
  6. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    Please enlighten us as to your extensive experience and bonafides in the coffee industry.
     
  7. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    :lol: because you can only gain knowledge about coffee by working in the coffee industry professionally right?
     
  8. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    Technically speaking, all roasted coffee is burnt to some degree, so are we all not lovers of burnt coffee?

    The SCAA, especially recently, is hardly the arbiter of good coffee. I also like that Starbucks is the official host sponsor of their next two big expos.
     
  9. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that, but I knew you would not give a substantive response. Thanks for supporting my point.
     
  10. b1os

    b1os Well-Known Member

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    This thread has turned very hostile. But also quite amusing.
     
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  11. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    Is all toasted bread burnt? I see your point, but I think both extremes, burnt or under-roasted, don't produce good results.
     
  12. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    He said to some degree (so yes all toasted bread is burnt to some degree)


    You wanted a substantive response to a non substantive question?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  13. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a good point, and a reasonable way to do things.

    That does bring up another thought about the professional coffee industry and its less than gracious attitude towards its customers ... We have a bunch of hobbyists here who have fairly eclectic tastes (most of us have recommended coffees from light to dark, and a variety of brewing methods depending on the preferences of the drinker), who are knowledgeable and interested, and who have not judged or excluded others based on what they prefer.

    Then someone from the pro coffee world shows up, and tells people who are probably like his typical customers that they're wrong for liking a different kind of coffee. End of story. There's no curiosity or interest in figuring out why they like this different coffee, and perhaps using that information to help improve their own coffee, or to suggest an “approved” coffee that these heathens might like.

    Even worse, there could possibly be no good reason for liking the wrong coffee, because the only reason they like this wrong coffee is the wrongest of all reasons: “burnt.” That's it: no dialog, no interest in the tastes and preferences of the customer. Just assumptions.

    After all of the stories we've heard about 3rd wave shops, they've kind of become urban legend, because, after all, who could possibly be so tone deaf and oblivious to their customers? And surely those stories have been exaggerated over time, and the reality is much more sane. I guess we've just had a reality check, because that attitude seems to be alive and well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    3 people like this.
  14. rydenfan

    rydenfan Well-Known Member

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    Of course!! I am leaving all of SF because I don't work as a shoe maker or in the fashion industry
     
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  15. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    Agreed the rhetoric has been as extreme as under-roasted or burnt coffee.
     
  16. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    it seems a little obtuse to say the rhetoric has been extreme when you're the one who contributed to this rhetoric by accusing people here of being burnt coffee lovers.....
     
  17. Ace_Face

    Ace_Face Well-Known Member

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    1 person likes this.
  18. why

    why Well-Known Member

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    Mhm, yep. It really doesn't matter, does it? I'm just offering whatever expertise I have on the matter. My credentials include drinking espresso and living in the coffee capital of Italy and going to (what some Italian publications consider) the best cafes in the espresso capital of the world (luckily located within walking distance). Dark roasts make bad espresso. Nobody serves espresso from any bean even nearly as dark as the average drip bean in America. No shops or supermarkets carry it. The darkest beans -- still not as dark as the darker drip coffee one -- I've only ever seen at the coffee supply shops (torrefazione -- there's not really an English equivalent) and I assume they all end up being used in French presses.

    Or, if you don't believe me, you can just buy a tin of Illy or (if you can find them locally or want to order them) Caffe Vergnano or Costadoro and open it.

    For what it's worth, I like drip coffee roasted darker. But 'espresso' roasts in America are wrong -- they are often as dark or darker than 'French' roasts which, as I mentioned, probably are roasted darker for a reason (they're more similar to drip coffees). Even the retail Illy 'dark roast' for espresso is lighter than most 'espresso' roasts done by American roasters, and as far as I know Caffe Vergnano and Costadoro don't even offer it. I'm not sure Illy offers it commerically either -- at least I've never seen it served in bars that serve Illy.

    If I had to hazard a guess as to where the 'espresso roast' in America came from I'd say it stemmed from people drinking espresso and thinking it's really strong coffee and then just thinking roasting beans darker produces something similar -- that, and the exoticism is marketable. The reality is much different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  19. scottcw

    scottcw Well-Known Member

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    Cue extremely substantive rhetoric.
     
  20. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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