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Lawyers: Could you kill someone who breaks into your house?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by LuxeStyles, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. globetrotter

    globetrotter Well-Known Member

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    That's another way that people get in trouble. If I were a prosecutor, and I was prosecuting someone who shot a burglar, you bet I would argue to the jury that it was more motivated by revenge or anger if the guy was shot 15 times, instead of once or twice or three times.



    .


    fair enough. I think that I have established that I don't think people should go around shooting intruders, but here I will use the "judged by twelve rather than carried by six" phrase. never, ever, ever, shoot somebody once. it is preferable to not shoot somebody, but once you have decided to kill somebody, shoot them enough times so that you are sure they are dead. what you don't want is to turn your back on somebody and have them kill you. and you don't want to stand over somebody until the police get there, either.
     
  2. globetrotter

    globetrotter Well-Known Member

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    I always sleep with a 1911 .45 auto in Condition Three--chamber empty, loaded magazine. In this state it is completely safe and harmless, yet the split-second act of racking the slide renders it "live."

    .

    Jan, it always seems that Americans consider this almost communist - not to keep a round in the chamber seems to diminish your manhood.
     
  3. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Jan, it always seems that Americans consider this almost communist - not to keep a round in the chamber seems to diminish your manhood.

    I always thought Condition 3 was big with your Israeli pals. Isn't that vindication enough?

    If Condition 3 makes me a limp-wristed pansy, so be it.
     
  4. javyn

    javyn Well-Known Member

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    Here in TX you are supposed to give warning before you use lethal force. Of course, this is something to keep in mind to tell the cops after the fact though. I doubt too many will have a chance to say "halt, cease your illegal trespassing activities or I will be forced to use lethal force!" before they need to defend themselves.

    Do note though, you shoot and kill someone, you WILL stand before the grand jury w/o legal representation no matter what.
     
  5. odoreater

    odoreater Well-Known Member

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    fair enough. I think that I have established that I don't think people should go around shooting intruders, but here I will use the "judged by twelve rather than carried by six" phrase. never, ever, ever, shoot somebody once. it is preferable to not shoot somebody, but once you have decided to kill somebody, shoot them enough times so that you are sure they are dead. what you don't want is to turn your back on somebody and have them kill you. and you don't want to stand over somebody until the police get there, either.

    I don't disagree with you. But, there is a difference between shooting a guy a few times (say 3 or 4) to make sure he is dead, and unloading an entire magazine into him.

    I also agree with your "judged by twelve rather than carried by six" phrase. If I were personally in that situation, and some guy was in my house and threatening me and my family, I would not hesitate to put him out of his misery to protect myself and my family.

    Essentially, Ataturk is right, the shooting is going to go down however it goes down and you might not have the presence of mind to think about all these factors (how many shots to fire, not hitting him in the back, not hitting him by the door, bla bla bla) or to control anything. The most important thing you can really do is not talk to the cops and immediately ask for a lawyer. Then, call me up. [​IMG]
     
  6. Johnny_5

    Johnny_5 Well-Known Member

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    You should also keep in mind that if you are using a firearm for " home defense" you probably don't want it to look too much like an assault weapon. Just imagine how difficult it would be for a jury not to convict you after the prosecutor shows the court your mossberg 590 shotgun with mounted bayonet, laser sights, pisol grip, and skull and crossbones sticker on the buttstock....
     
  7. javyn

    javyn Well-Known Member

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    Also try to avoid keeping things like 357 magnums in your home for defense, especially in an apartment. The best choice is a pump shotty, but if you must keep a pistol, at least buy rounds that don't travel very far, like, through your wall into a neighbor's house/apartment.
     
  8. globetrotter

    globetrotter Well-Known Member

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    I always thought Condition 3 was big with your Israeli pals. Isn't that vindication enough?

    If Condition 3 makes me a limp-wristed pansy, so be it.


    no, I was raised and brought up with condition 3, and consider it the only good condition. I just find it interesting that somebody like yourself, who was is in a position to influence american shooters likes it, when so many americans seem to think it is evil.
     
  9. Ataturk

    Ataturk Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand I was raised with double action revolvers. No such thing as "condition 3" there, and it doesn't make any sense to me with a double action automatic either.

    Personally, I think that if you're reluctant to carry your .45 with one in the chamber, you ought to carry a different gun.
     
  10. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think that if you're reluctant to carry your .45 with one in the chamber, you ought to carry a different gun.

    If I'm carrying a holstered 1911, it will be in Condition 1 (cocked and locked) in all probability. If I have a 1911 in bed with me, it will be in Condition 3.

    I ran some experiments a few years back and found that presenting an automatic from Condition 3 averaged only about 0.3-second slower than a presentation from Condition 1. The big drawback to Condition 3 is that it requires two hands, which might make things more difficult if you needed to shoot somebody who was grappling you at close quarters.
     
  11. globetrotter

    globetrotter Well-Known Member

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    If I'm carrying a holstered 1911, it will be in Condition 1 (cocked and locked) in all probability. If I have a 1911 in bed with me, it will be in Condition 3.

    I ran some experiments a few years back and found that presenting an automatic from Condition 3 averaged only about 0.3-second slower than a presentation from Condition 1. The big drawback to Condition 3 is that it requires two hands, which might make things more difficult if you needed to shoot somebody who was grappling you at close quarters.


    I used to be able to chamber a round in a cz 9mm one handed - on the leg of my pants. our training was all starting out with an empty chamber essentially drawing and chambering in one movement. one thing that we learned to do was chamber one handed with either hand, for just such an occasion.
     
  12. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    I used to be able to chamber a round in a cz 9mm one handed - on the leg of my pants. our training was all starting out with an empty chamber essentially drawing and chambering in one movement. one thing that we learned to do was chamber one handed with either hand, for just such an occasion.

    I am aware of many such tricks, snagging the sight on your holster or belt, holsters with cocking shelves, etc. I always felt the increased fumble potential and the possibility of sending a bullet into your leg offset any safety advantages afforded by Condition 3. Still, such drills are useful in case you ever have to deploy your pistol or clear a jam when one arm has been disabled.
     
  13. globetrotter

    globetrotter Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of many such tricks, snagging the sight on your holster or belt, holsters with cocking shelves, etc. I always felt the increased fumble potential and the possibility of sending a bullet into your leg offset any safety advantages afforded by Condition 3. Still, such drills are useful in case you ever have to deploy your pistol or clear a jam when one arm has been disabled.

    I agree with you on all counts.
     
  14. Dan189

    Dan189 Active Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012

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