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Law Schools - Where and Why?

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by El Argentino, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. onix

    onix Well-Known Member

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    Obviously possible for that 8% above 165.

    Also, just see the post right above you. He did that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  2. silvere2

    silvere2 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, well unfortunately in this economy the only schools that would open you up to all of those markets are Yale, Harvard, Stanford. So, these are the school I would avoid in the Top 20, with explanations for each:

    Wash U: Great school, they give out a ton of scholly money, but they're a midwestern powerhouse with not much placement outside unless you're in the tippy top of your class.

    Vanderbilt: Usually I recommend Vanderbilt to a lot of people with grades for the lower top 14. Their NLJ + Clerkship placement is historically as good as Cornell and Georgetown, and some years been even better (though Cornell had a superstar year, so this year they happen to be lower), they place in a wide variety of markets (50% in NY/DC, 10% in Cali), and they love giving out scholarship money. Sticker at Georgetown, Cornell, Duke versus a scholarship at Vandy would be a no brainer in my mind, I would take Vandy every single time. Their small class (about 180 students) also makes placement easier during a recession. However, they place about 30% of their class in the south, and for someone who would be absolutely miserable living in the south the risk is too great.

    UT: If you had said you wouldn't mind Dallas or Houston, I would have recommended UT. However, Austin is a relatively small market that requires quite strong ties. Going to law school at UT usually isn't enough to stick around in Austin, you would need something like undergrad at UT, marrying/married to someone in Austin, parents live in Austin, things like that.

    GW: Extremely expensive school in one of the most expensive cities in the world with one of the most competitive legal markets, and a top 14 as practically its next door neighbor. Its easy to see why GW is a very risky choice without a TON of scholarship money. With that said, they give out a really big scholarship that amounts to around 100k and first year room and board free. With that scholly I would consider it, otherwise no way.

    And the one school I would recommend outside of the Top 20 is Boston University. BU places more or less like they're in the ut/ucla/vanderbilt range, however they're ranked outside the Top 20. They have great northeast placement in general including NY and (obviously) Boston.
     
  3. bringusingoodale

    bringusingoodale Well-Known Member

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    preemptive law school drop out right here...

    These threads always make me feel either like I was sooo right or that I just should have tried harder
     
  4. sns23

    sns23 Well-Known Member

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    He said most people can get a 165-170 after three months of studying and lots of practice. That is just a ludicrous statement as only a few percent score in that range, far from "most."

    You don't have to go to a top school to be successful. However, it is going to be challenging. You just have to be cautious when taking on a lot of debt, as well as have a reasonable view on the reality of the future
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  5. skitlets

    skitlets Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling most people taking it aren't studying enough or even productively. Almost everyone who puts in 15 hours/week for 3 months scores 160. That's just studying the basics + PT'ing. If you're a good test taker or know how to address your weaknesses, 165 for sure. Even if you aren't, there are advanced test programs that will do that for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  6. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    don't go
    seriously
    OP's reasons and future plans... do not require a law school
    and the OP already knows and stated that he wants to be in the big markets... where the job prospects are already terrible

    and i say the LSAT is not a test you can study for
    you either got it or you don't
    LSAT is the one test where someone can walk in and take it with zero prep and get a "perfect" score
    because it's based on how your brain works naturally
    you can't reprogram your brain in 3-4 months
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  7. sns23

    sns23 Well-Known Member

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    you have no idea what you are talking about. How do you know what everyone score?
     
  8. bringusingoodale

    bringusingoodale Well-Known Member

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    haha. No. It is a test like any other test; with enough preparation and strategy, you can improve any score.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  9. El Argentino

    El Argentino Well-Known Member

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    I took one of the Kaplan LSATs blindly a month ago and got a 160 (being a fairly good test taker). I'm taking it for real in December and hope to creep up to 168-172.

    At the same time, I have a good friend who took it on a whim. He got four hours of sleep the night before, having forgot about it initially. Walked out with a 179.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  10. skitlets

    skitlets Well-Known Member

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    What? Have you even taken the test or studied for it?


    From trolling law school forums. Maybe it's self-sample biased but nearly everyone who puts in the time is able to score 160. I have tons of friends who went through the same process before me and its the same story.

    Think of it like a mile competition. You'll get people who got off the couch 2 weeks in advance and you have people who trained for it for MONTHS. Some people are naturally adept at running, some aren't. But if you put in the time, you'll reach a decent time. (Say, I dunno, 6:30 for men) All those people who aren't serious about it bring the average score down.
     
  11. silvere2

    silvere2 Well-Known Member

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    That's a horseshit excuse used by people who are too lazy to put in the work. The LSAT is extremely learnable, but it takes hard work and most people don't want to do it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  12. skitlets

    skitlets Well-Known Member

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    160 diagnostic is a great start, better than mine. Just be aware that your January app is pretty late in the cycle. A lot of schools do rolling admissions and January apps are at a disadvantage compared to earlier ones.
     
  13. El Argentino

    El Argentino Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know. I learned that late. I went on to LSAC about two weeks before the October sitting to find out that you couldn't sign up that close to the date, so I had to go with december. Oh well.

    All the rest of my apps on LSAC are done, LOR are in, Evaluations, etc. Just need that score to hit and press submit.
     
  14. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    ^ exactly what i'm talking about

    and yes, i have studied for and taken the test (i even went to and graduated from a first tier law school... and i advise people not to go to law school everyday now)
    i started off with a pretty high diagnostic score
    did get a better score on my actual exam after studying but not THAT much better
    if you start off lower, sure you have more room for improvement
    but if you already start at 160+ ... it's a different story
    and i don't think people who start at like 150 are going to score 170+ just because they study all they can (unless if the 150 was a fluke)
    there is a limit to how much you can actually improve on the LSAT because it's about how your brain is wired, not about any accumulated knowledge
     
  15. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    were you always planning on applying to law school? or did you just kinda decide last minute?

    if you had been planning... then the fact that you didn't stay on top of your deadline for registering for the LSAT is not a good sign
    i'd advise you to seriously reconsider the decision to go to law school

    if you just kinda decided last minute...
    i'd advise you to seriously reconsider the decision to go to law school
    at least put some more time and thought into it and figure out why you want to go to law school and whether you actually need law school to achieve whatever goal you have set for yourself
     
  16. El Argentino

    El Argentino Well-Known Member

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    No - hadn't been planning at that point. I'm more or less learning everything as I go.

    I'm in the reconsidering process. Trust me. Taking the LSAT in the meantime keeps the door open.
     
  17. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    yes
    do give yourself the option... it's not a bad one

    i'm not against going to law school for people who have pretty specific career goals and other plans that require a JD to get there
    but there are just too many people who think law school is a magical solution to everything without even remotely considering all the pitfalls

    and yes, getting your application in late is not doing you any favor... but it does not automatically mean you won't get a chance at the top schools
    i applied on the last day possible (sometime in february i think) and was placed on the waitlist at a T14 school
    although i didn't get in off the waitlist (few ever do) it was still a surprise to me that i was even waitlisted at all
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  18. onix

    onix Well-Known Member

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    With all due respects, and please excuse my language, but this is just bull shit. Here is the thing with LSAT: the tests are not hard if you are given unlimited time; the hard thing about it is doing well under tremendous time pressure. And that's all about practicing. Practice, practice, practice, to the point where many questions can be answered quickly via intuition, without precise logical reasoning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  19. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    logic games, you can get 100% on every question if you were given enough time
    because the games have 1 correct answer
    and with enough time, you could work the games front and back to double check your answers

    the other sections tell you to pick the "best" answer
    so even with unlimited time, you aren't guaranteed to score 100% on them
     
  20. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Well-Known Member

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    and this is why your LSAT performance depends on the way your brain is hardwired
    if your brain works that way, you will score high
    if it doesn't... then you just can't pass a certain threshold ... because your brain lacks that intuition
     

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