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Kiton Borrelli,Attolini RTW vs: Savile Row

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Fashionslave, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. Fashionslave

    Fashionslave Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen of the board-I've been wondering? Is the investment of a $4200. suit from Naples finest tailoring houses(Kiton Attolini or Borrelli) justified when one can spend about the same money for a masterpiece in tailoring from one of Savile Row's finest(Huntsman,A&S,Darren)? Despite fabulous build quality and painstaking detail,don't these somehow fall short?Conversely,I think England's best RTW,Chester Barrie,while excellent, does not stand up to the aforementioned.On the other hand,ther'es nothing like Savile Row in Naples,other than the odd brilliant individual tailor who doen't care about business expansion/self promotion.We don't really even know who these guys are.What are your thoughts?
     
  2. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    $2400 for Attolini? $2400 for Kiton? $2400 for Huntsman? For A&S? Since when? $2400 won't even get you a Hong Kong made Kilgour.

    Where are you getting your prices from? Second of all, are you looking for RTW or bespoke, because the two are not interchangeable.

    Jon.
     
  3. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    So many thoughts, so little time.  The Naples RTW brands you mention will have better, smaller, prettier, more precise handwork than even the best SR garment.  But the fit of a RTW garment will never be as precise as bespoke, and the silhouette will never be as subtly molded to your body.

    There are big-time, big-name, Savile Row-type tailoring firms in Naples.  The most famous is London House (Rubinacci).  Cesare Attolini got his start there.
     
  4. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Right now, from memory, these are the floor prices for a two-piece, full bespoke suit from the Big Five (all prices quoted in GBP):

    Huntsman: 3,000
    Gieves: 2,750
    Kilgour: 2,450
    Poole: 2,000
    Anderson & Sheppard: 2,000.
     
  5. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

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    When I'm firmly into 4 figures, I would never buy RTW. In fact, I'm pretyt firmly set against RTW altogether. Fit is most important to me. I suit with spectacular construction looks horrible if it doesn't fit. I just see no real reason to buy many RTW clothes anymore. And with so many cheaper custom alternatives these days, I think nobody else should either. Unless RTW fits you perfectly, I think you should have something made that does.
     
  6. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    The floor prices (from memory) of some of the off-row, "itinerant" tailors:

    Mahon: 1,610
    Hitchcock: 1,530
    Steed (DeBois): 1,450
    Beaman: 1,250
     
  7. Renault78law

    Renault78law Well-Known Member

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    To answer your original question, I think the answer is no. The most important considerations when choosing a suit: fit, fit, fit. Construction and materials are ancillary.

    And I disagree that you can't easily find a brilliant custom tailor in Naples, or other places in Italy. Just ask, I'm sure forum members can point you in the right direction.
     
  8. slaavwmr

    slaavwmr Well-Known Member

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    What is mean by "floor" prices.

    Also, is it worth the premium to get the suit from the big 5 as opposed to getting one from an independent.
     
  9. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    It will probably involve going off the beaten path, armed with money and a good grasp of the language's local dialect. Can someone please be our guinea pig [​IMG]
     
  10. Fashionslave

    Fashionslave Well-Known Member

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    That's an excellent question.Maybe I should have posed the question,"Are we all too label and name conscious"?If a suit is brilliantly tailored ,I guess it doesn't matter who makes it.It boils down to the huge amount of ink these houses get.On the other hand,if you're considering investing,I'd think you'd want the tailor to have a good track record,which all the big names have.
     
  11. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    "Floor price" means their lowest price: what they charge for the most basic cloths, and for old bolts they have on hand that they're trying to move out the door.

    The advantages of going to one of the "little guys" are several. 1) They are cheaper. 2) You get more personal service; your business means more to them, so you are less likely to get lost in the bustle. 3) It's easier to get a really good pattern and develop a long-term relationship. 4)You can take satisfaction from supporting smaller artisans and keeping the trade alive.
     
  12. slaavwmr

    slaavwmr Well-Known Member

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    What about trustworthyness? The big names aren't going to run off with your money. Is it not a fear with the independents?

    What about quality? Is the difference between a Hunstman and a Darren Beamn so much in quality or is the premium just for the name?
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry about off-Row tailors absconding with your money.

    The price difference has a lot of factors. Name is one. Also overhead and location. Some see a difference in quality. I think at the top end, Savile Row quality tends to be pretty uniformly high. You are also paying for little esoteric differences in styling and silhouette that you can't get elsewhere, arguably.
     
  14. uppercase

    uppercase Well-Known Member

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    For the smaller, Italian tailors, you'll have to go to Italy.

    I would have no concern about honesty. They are small but are going concerns in their own country, with a local reputation to protect.

    But think about the time issue needed for the fittings. If you could combine a vacation to Italy with a bespoke adventure, perhaps you could get your suit done in 7-10 days. What better reason to travel to Italy.

    It would be a fantastic adventure to use the detailed tailoring knowledge you have gained in SF translated into a beautiful suit.

    Think about it. A vacation to Sorento or Capri with day trips to your Naples tailor...... Wow.
     
  15. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Well-Known Member

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    A Minor Interjection: I was recently asked by a client to similar-ize an old Kiton R-T-W garment he owned. Because of this, I looked closely at the garment's construction. It was not a suit but an 'unconstructed' casual jacket. The quality of construction was disgusting. [​IMG] Note: Lest you think principles are being compromised here, you all know I shan't comment upon the work of other custom makers in my field. I have no such compunction with R-T-W makers.
     
  16. Fashionslave

    Fashionslave Well-Known Member

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    Mr Kabbaz-I think I have seen those unconstructed Kiton "jackets"(?) gathering dust in Filenes Basement. I have also occasionaly seen them on Ebay,and they never sell,because they're a huge price for what amounts to a heavy wool (or cashmere)shirt.
     
  17. linux_pro

    linux_pro Well-Known Member

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    I am traveling to Milan (and Italy) for a few weeks in mid-March, and am considering picking up a few tailored suits while I'm there. If I do, I'll take some pics and post.
     
  18. johnapril

    johnapril Well-Known Member

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    Cifonelli does those much better.
     
  19. kitonbrioni

    kitonbrioni Well-Known Member

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    Since it's bespoke, why not have a SR tailor make a Napoli style suit and save a $1k+?
     
  20. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Well-Known Member

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    Since SR tailors generally have distinct house styles, I would wonder if they are willing to reproduce a Napoli style suit--or if they are even capable of working in that style.
     

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