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J&M vs. C&J: A wingtip comparison

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by PhiloVance, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to Ken Pollock, I was able to acquire a pair of the J&M handmades, a brown wingtip. A truly beautiful shoe. I was comparing the J&Ms to the antique chestnut cliffords I purchased recently, and they really offer an interesting contrast in style for what is essentially the same "style" shoe. The 337 last is much more elongated at the toe, which gives the shoe a sleeker look. But the J&M is really just exquisite. Much more substantial shoe, and I think the medallion puts the C&J design to shame. I also noticed the J&M has some differentiation in the style/size of the broguing along the laces as compared to the rest of the shoe.

    I don't want to say the differences come down to simply American vs. English, but perhaps it really is that simple. And I really can't see much of a difference in craftsmanship, but I'm certainly no expert.
     
  2. darkoak

    darkoak Well-Known Member

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    Pictures would greatly elucidate your points [​IMG]
     
  3. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I have those exact same J&M's and they're fabulous. Where did you get yours? Take care of them: they're a lost treasure, as you know.
     
  4. Augusto86

    Augusto86 Well-Known Member

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    Do all wingtips have medallions?
     
  5. whoopee

    whoopee Well-Known Member

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    No but they usually do.
     
  6. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    Do all wingtips have medallions?
    Those that don't are sometimes called "austerity brogues." They are not common. See below.

    http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/w...00&imageType=2

    And they can be even more "austere" than that!
     
  7. whoopee

    whoopee Well-Known Member

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    The EG Beaulieu is another example of an austerity brogue. There is actually no broguing.
     
  8. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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  9. aportnoy

    aportnoy Well-Known Member

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    The EG Beaulieu is another example of an austerity brogue. There is actually no broguing.

    The C&J handgrade Tavistock is also an austerity brgoue and quite similar to the Beaulieu.
     
  10. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Roger. I did see those, but I may not bite. (Price certainly is right, though!)
     
  11. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Well-Known Member

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    Roger, Thanks for the pic! Yes, those J&Ms look sturdy. What exactly is the name of that style of wingtip, where the wing broguing actually runs the entire length of the shoe to the back ?
     
  12. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Well-Known Member

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    I have those exact same J&M's and they're fabulous. Where did you get yours? Take care of them: they're a lost treasure, as you know.

    Mr. Pollock was kind enough to sell me a pair. They are really something else, I'm really wondering if they should even be worn.
     
  13. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Roger, Thanks for the pic! Yes, those J&Ms look sturdy. What exactly is the name of that style of wingtip, where the wing broguing actually runs the entire length of the shoe to the back ?

    It's generally called a "long wing," though I think the British sometimes call it an "imperial brogue" or something like that.
     
  14. whoopee

    whoopee Well-Known Member

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  15. Roger

    Roger Well-Known Member

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    Roger, Thanks for the pic! Yes, those J&Ms look sturdy. What exactly is the name of that style of wingtip, where the wing broguing actually runs the entire length of the shoe to the back ?
    That style is referred to as "longwing." You know, I've never seen a balmoral longwing, only bluchers. Teacher, you've seen more shoes than any 100 men--have you ever seen a balmoral longwing?
     
  16. kennethpollock

    kennethpollock Well-Known Member

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    That style is referred to as "longwing." You know, I've never seen a balmoral longwing, only bluchers. Teacher, you've seen more shoes than any 100 men--have you ever seen a balmoral longwing?

    I have never seen one. The typical example is the AE MacNeil. Florheim also carries them. IMO a longwing is a heavier looking shoe and works much better with a blucher, which is heavier looking than a balmoral.
     
  17. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Royal brogue.

    Ah, thank you.
     
  18. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    That style is referred to as "longwing." You know, I've never seen a balmoral longwing, only bluchers. Teacher, you've seen more shoes than any 100 men--have you ever seen a balmoral longwing?

    Yes, I have a pair. They're J&M Aristocrafts in a pebble grain from the 1950's. Other than those, no.

    (And there are others 'round these parts who've seen more shoes than I, but thank you!)
     
  19. kennethpollock

    kennethpollock Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Pollock was kind enough to sell me a pair. They are really something else, I'm really wondering if they should even be worn.

    The shoe that I sold to PhiloVance is pictured here (except that the one I had was a "second," with a slightly cheaper all-rubber heel).
    http://styleforum.net./showthread.ph...hlight=pollock
     

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