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J. Crew Quality?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Sartorially Challenged, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    I can see your viewpoint, sure. But I see some great strides in performance in other areas like cars. Some industries die like textiles, some flourish like IT, auto, some artisanal crafts, etc.
     
  2. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps not, but that would be true in other countries as well.

    Now the big silver lining is that were those 50s or 80s brands like Armani better than what we can get in the 2000s? I think not for the most part. Modern clothes use very hitech fabrics and at the right price you can get great handwork whether you go Oxxford or Kiton.

    I do dream about going back in time to 2000 when the FX rates were more favorable to us Yanks and buying half the bespoke inventory in London. [​IMG]
     
  3. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Well-Known Member

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    My college roommate, the son of a Scottish duke, once remarked that Americans consider quality a luxury rather than a birthight. As a generalization, it struck me as pretty accurate.
     
  4. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    That smacks of more Euro jealousy. I would ask if Haggis is really quality?
     
  5. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    Since when did outsourcing become selling out?

    ... Even Paris is full of non-French goods and people. Everyone is going global since it's the better deal.


    I too want to avoid a full blown politic debate but I can tell you I flew from NY to France before heading back to Sydney. It was sad to go through Les Grand Magasins of old in Paris - Galerie Lafayette and Printemps namely - only to find them full to the brim with Chinese made rubbish by Hugo Boss and the like. Gasp....
     
  6. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I was just comparing it quality wise to other stores at a similar price point. Honestly, I've found that the few Banana garments I own, and the ones I saw at Zara (when my girlfriend dragged me in), are of far sub par quality. They just feel cheap, whereas the J Crew clothes feel much more comprable to the likes of BB/RL at a lower price. Of course, this discludes their suits, which are dreadful.

    I would agree that the quality is higher than Zara, and it's potentially better than BR for things like sweaters, but I have found their polos are not quite as good quality as BR IMO, it's more of a case by case basis, I guess. J Crew's shoes are MUCH better than BR's though, which are utter shit.
     
  7. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

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    As far as the globalization argument goes, people that are arguing poor working conditions and low wages, should see the lines of people that are forming to work at such places. When I was working in Asia I was working on business development and set up manufacturing contracts in Malaysia, China, and the Phillipines and certainly wages and working conditions were lower than in the West, but the jobs were highly coveted because they offered a higher standard of living than the alternative. One can argue that child labor is unethical and that it's an offense towards human rights to have lower wages and working conditions than in industrialized countries, but there are no shortage of people who are willing to work there.
     
  8. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Well-Known Member

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    That smacks of more Euro jealousy. I would ask if Haggis is really quality?

    No, actually, it doesn't. He also said that the reason he moved to America was because it was the last living culture on Earth.
     
  9. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    As far as the globalization argument goes, people that are arguing poor working conditions and low wages, should see the lines of people that are forming to work at such places. When I was working in Asia I was working on business development and set up manufacturing contracts in Malaysia, China, and the Phillipines and certainly wages and working conditions were lower than in the West, but the jobs were highly coveted because they offered a higher standard of living than the alternative. One can argue that child labor is unethical and that it's an offense towards human rights to have lower wages and working conditions than in industrialized countries, but there are no shortage of people who are willing to work there.

    I will once again avoid any full blown political debates but what I can say for sure is that the stuff they make is guaranteed to be complete rubbish. That is why I prefer bespoke where you can see the people working in the room busily tailoring away. Then I know it's genuinely made in Australia and good stuff. That's also why I love the stories I hear of how the guy's at Edward Green play cricket on their break every day in North Hampshire. Just love it! No wonder they are behind on their orders from RLPL but that too is terribly English!
     
  10. Sartorially Challenged

    Sartorially Challenged Well-Known Member

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    You may not be buying value, but you are certainly buying a fantasy.
     
  11. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    You may not be buying value, but you are certainly buying a fantasy.

    Do you mean I am imagining things when I see that my EGs or Lobbs are better quality than those Mexican made J&M's?
     
  12. Sartorially Challenged

    Sartorially Challenged Well-Known Member

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    I define "value" as quality per dollar (or Euro or Yen if you prefer). High quality items may or may not always be a value proposition in that it may come at a "too high" of a price.

    Let me repeat what I said: "You may not be buying value, but you are certainly buying a fantasy."

    The fantasy part? Let's repeat what you wrote:
    Ah, yes, the lovely English scenery of young bootmaking lads playing cricket. A wonderful fantasy (known in the US as marketing image).

    Unfortunately, lads playing cricket in their off time has little, if any, to do with making shoes (or computers for that matter). To repeat, I do not know if you are buying value (you could be, for all I know), but you certainly seem to be buying a fantasy of that scenery.
     
  13. Sartorially Challenged

    Sartorially Challenged Well-Known Member

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    And pray tell, are you typing on an Australian-made computer? Using Australian-made modems, routers, servers, etc.?

    Or are you using "stuff" that is "guaranteed to be complete rubbish"?
     
  14. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean I am imagining things when I see that my EGs or Lobbs are better quality than those Mexican made J&M's?

    Or that you're imagining things because you have an appreciation for the pastimes and attitudes toward work of the English bespoke makers, and perhaps share fellow feeling as well?

    Or that you're buying a fantasy because the more expensive shoes end up being cheaper when amortized over their useful life?
     
  15. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    The fantasy part? Let's repeat what you wrote: Ah, yes, the lovely English scenery of young bootmaking lads playing cricket. A wonderful fantasy (known in the US as marketing image). Unfortunately, lads playing cricket in their off time has little, if any, to do with making shoes (or computers for that matter). To repeat, I do not know if you are buying value (you could be, for all I know), but you certainly seem to be buying a fantasy of that scenery.
    I found out about the cricket business only recently and much after I had started to buy EG shoes. It is just a matter of fact as recounted by someone I know who had personally visited the EG shoe factory, who being Australian found himself playing cricket with them. There is nothing in the EG catalogue about it at all.
     
  16. Sartorially Challenged

    Sartorially Challenged Well-Known Member

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    I'd buy that if it were true. I have not seen evidence to this fact as far as footwear are concerned.

    Don't get me wrong. I like expensive, high quality shoes just as much as the next person. But I am clear about why I like them. I think they look and feel nicer, more "luxurious" if you will, and I can afford, if I so chose, to forgo value for that extra measure of luxury -- not because I indulge in the fantasy of buying a piece of English countryside living c. interwar years.

    I ask again:
     
  17. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    And pray tell, are you typing on an Australian-made computer? Using Australian-made modems, routers, servers, etc.?

    Or are you using "stuff" that is "guaranteed to be complete rubbish"?


    They certainly seem to be designed to be redundant, technological dinosaurs as soon as you buy the lastest model. Certainly not made to last like an EG or Lobb shoe I tell you.
     
  18. Arethusa

    Arethusa Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes. Now I remember. This is why I hate this forum.
     
  19. Sator

    Sator Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes. Now I remember. This is why I hate this forum.

    Yes I am beginning to hate it too. Let's call a truce before someone get's hurt!!!!
     
  20. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Well-Known Member

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    And pray tell, are you typing on an Australian-made computer? Using Australian-made modems, routers, servers, etc.?

    Or are you using "stuff" that is "guaranteed to be complete rubbish"?


    I've never considered wearing computers or related peripherals. I thought we were discussing clothes.
     

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