J. Crew Quality?

[Artisan Fan]

True enough. Welcome to globalization.

Beats the alternative of socialism.

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Tyrwhitt compares unfavorably to other Jermyn Street makers, but my two Tyrwhitt shirts are immeasurably nicer than my J. Crew shirts.

I visited the Aquascutum shop while in Boston as well (a stroll down the street from the conference centre) and was similarly horrified. Nothing genuinely English about it anymore. It's all outsourced rubbish.

I also really wished it were easier as a tourist in America to find honest apple pie Americana. Here in Australia, it's even worse. So you guys are lucky by comparison. The only saving grace is the relative affordability of quality bespoke here. Now you see why I spent hours writing my post on RM Williams even without any motivation for financial gain. I wanted to do my bit to preserve regional dress heritage in a world where everything is headed towards greater homogeneity and anonimity. Quality producers need (our!) word of mouth support or else they get drowned out by mass advertising promoting mass rubbish and then they go bust never to be seen again. Or worse still they sell out like Brooks Brothers did.

Better to die with honour than to sell out, I think.

 

[Sartorially Challenged]

With the 50% off code, Tyrwhitt top coats are less expensive. But the thing that attracted me to J.Crew top coat was the fit. They already come waist-suppressed.

On the other hand, the Tyrwhitt coats look baggy (or simply straight down).

 

[Sartorially Challenged]

Oh, by the way, does J.Crew ever offer sales code online like Sierra Trading or Charles Tyrwhitt?

 

[Arethusa]

Only very rarely. Their sales have been getting progressively worse, as well. They do manage to move quite a bit at full retail, these days.

 

[DocHolliday]

Our trouble is that we've spread America all over the globe, while doing a poor job of preserving it at home.

You did a good job as an ambassador for RM Williams, Sator. I think you convinced several of us to give them a try.

Have you ever read any Bill Bryson? It's interesting to compare his love letter to Australia, "In a Sunburned Country," with his acidic assessment of small-town America, "The Lost Continent."

(His "Short History of Nearly Everything" is one of my favorite nonfiction books, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Beats the alternative of socialism.
Surely there is a better alternative to slave labour like exploitation and the unrelenting loss of quality menswear in favour of anonymous Chinese made slobwear? If your answer is "NO" - well then - viva la revolucion!

 

[Artisan Fan]

I also really wished it were easier as a tourist in America to find honest apple pie Americana.

With all due respect you are just going to the wrong stores. If you were in Boston you should go to Louis Boston or Drinkwater's.

Our trouble is that we've spread America all over the globe, while doing a poor job of preserving it at home.

I politely disagree...we have not preserved all of our menswear industry but that is good news for the consumer who now has more choices at lower and higher prices due to globalization. I like that. In other industries we see that higher value design with offshore manufacturing is a winning combination. Look at the success Apple is having with Macs and iPods.

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Our trouble is that we've spread America all over the globe, while doing a poor job of preserving it at home.

You did a good job as an ambassador for RM Williams, Sator. I think you convinced several of us to give them a try.

Have you ever read any Bill Bryson? It's interesting to compare his love letter to Australia, "In a Sunburned Country," with his acidic assessment of small-town America, "The Lost Continent."

(His "Short History of Nearly Everything" is one of my favorite nonfiction books, but that's neither here nor there.)

I have to give Bill Bryson a go.

Yeah, I got that feeling with America. There is a lot of ritualised flag waving and saluting but then you can't buy an old fashioned American sack suit at Brooks Brothers any more. Saks and Bergdorf are full of Italian(-sounding) labels (a significant proportion being wholly or partly made in China - save the 'Made in Italy' badge). I had terrible trouble finding America in America.

The funniest story is that I had to correct the salesman at Barney's in NY when he tried to tell me that Kiton is "100% handmade" and has more handwork than any other label they stock (they stock Oxxford). Fancy that!

 

[EL72]

Originally Posted by Sator

The funniest story is that I had to correct the salesman at Barney's in NY when he tried to tell me that Kiton is "100% handmade" and has more handwork than any other label they stock (they stock Oxxford). Fancy that!

What do you think of that Artisan Fan?

Paging Seitelman!

 

[Sartorially Challenged]

Better to die with honour than to sell out, I think.

I generally agree with that sentiment... but these companies are in the business of selling, not in the business or honor.

I had terrible trouble finding America in America.

You have a very static view of America. It's always been a country of the future, not the past. That is not to say there is no history, rather that we Americans do not feel constrained by the past nor do we feel that our past should dictate our future.

The loss of American artisanal tradition is lamentable, but the fact is that consumers enjoy a wide variety of choices over a varying price spectrum. On the whole the benefit outweighs the cost, as can be demonstrated by the comparative standard of living.

Furthermore, this choice factor has allowed artisanal crafts to flourish in some ways. For example, outside Japan, there is only one country where extremely high quality (and extremely high price) Japanese-style blades (I mean Katana and such, not kitchen knives) are made in any quantity. And that is the good ol' US of A.

Because of all the low cost Chinese clothing and mass-manufactured (low cost) food we buy, we have high disposable income and can spend our money silly on one of a kind blade that will cut through about 8 bullets fired at it before it gives out (and the $3,500 select-fire weapon to fire those bullets with in the first place).

I love consumer's choice.

 

[UMass]

I have a JCrew and Charles Tyrwhitt suit. The CH suit is a notch above JC in both materials, fit, and construction.

The JC was made in Mexico and the CH in Malta. However, JC does have some quality products most notably Italian made shoes and UK/Scotland wool blazers.

For your choice of top coat I would choose CH over JC site unseen. CH is generally better quality overall than JC.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

I politely disagree...we have not preserved all of our menswear industry but that is good news for the consumer who now has more choices at lower and higher prices due to globalization. I like that. In other industries we see that higher value design with offshore manufacturing is a winning combination. Look at the success Apple is having with Macs and iPods.

I'm not sure I'd want to argue my own point. I'm referring not so much to globalization, or to politics, but in general.

I tried to get a leather strap made for my watch the other day, but I can't have it done here. I can't even get a simple repair on my umbrella done here. I'll have to send it to NYC for that. Or London.

It was more a wistful comment on how things were, or at least how they seem to have been.

 

[Artisan Fan]

Since when did outsourcing become selling out?

I'm a shareholder of some of these companies, if they can maintain quality and lower prices but outsourcing the manufacture then I am all for it.

I'd rather be in a high GDP growth country and use all the extra cash from all the bargains to go buy the good stuff in San Fran, Milan and London.

My second would be be this: "who hasn't sold out?" Even Paris is full of non-French goods and people. Everyone is going global since it's the better deal.

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

With all due respect you are just going to the wrong stores. If you were in Boston you should go to Louis Boston or Drinkwater's.


I am sure you are right. Too late now - maybe next time. But had I gone to Boston in the 1950's - or even the 1980's - would I have had to look so hard to find Americana other than in somewhat esoteric boutiques?