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Is Vass quality control slipping?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Omega Man, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    I admire your outrage as a non-owner of Vass.

    We need more of this kind of charitable vexation.

    You are a giver, and I for one appreciate that.


    - B


    I know you're just being "Bill The Snarky Bastard" but I think I'm making a valid point that you can at least try to agree with without looking at this from the ridiculous view point of "good enough."
     
  2. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    I know you're just being "Bill The Snarky Bastard" but I think I'm making a valid point that you can at least try to agree with without looking at this from the ridiculous view point of "good enough."

    Let me reach into my big burlap validation bag and get something for you...hold on...hmmm...no, not that...give me sec...okay...I think that I have it!

    [​IMG]


    - B
     
  3. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    Snark


    - B


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Axelman 17

    Axelman 17 Well-Known Member

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    +10000 Completely agree. Imagine what this would be like if it were Allen Edmonds instead of Vass.

    I'll never understand accepting anything less than what you ordered in an MTO shoe or any MTO product. It just gives the company more reason to care less.


    1. I didn't want to wait 4-6 more weeks to get the order right
    2. As for a partial refund, I would probably push harder for something punative like this if it had happened at some large, global producer. It didnt feel right to try and stick it too a mom and pop shop (correct me if Vass is a bigger operation than I am giving them credit for) over mistakes that while disappointing, didnt really ruin my enjoyment of the product.
     
  5. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Well-Known Member

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    this is a perfect example of a company that legitimately needs to raise its shoe prices to be able to operate within acceptable confines and not overextend itself, since this is only literally a 'mom and pop' shop
     
  6. agbassano

    agbassano Well-Known Member

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    Legitimately raise their price??? They can charge whatever they want! I don't quite think that price has to do with any of this... it has to do with the channels used to purchase the product and/or the producer is overwhelmed. Regardless, it gives pause that Vass doesn't immediately say, "we received the correct order, accepted the price, but decided to give you something else". They can just say, "the order was processed as received" and then the blame falls on the "dealer".

    It's always a risk to order something like shoes through non formal channels to save a few dollars or forints... There is NEVER an excuse to receive something you paid for and received totally different (no matter the price paid or channel of purchase), but there are a lot of injustices in this world.

    Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides of a living in the US (GREAT country, but service - not manufacturer oriented). In Europe - I can't speak about England, but can about Italy - they care much, much less about a "name" and much more about quality. But they can find a quality cobbler or tailor much easier than we can, and at much better prices.

    You're paying a premium for the Vass name (though that name does have some value). Alas, a bargain isn't a bargain if you don't get what you want....
     
  7. BrooklynWeGoHard

    BrooklynWeGoHard Well-Known Member

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    they are not a "mom and pop shop"
     
  8. apropos

    apropos Well-Known Member

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    I hope that the forum will quickly tire of vox. I know that some already are. He isn't half as funny as he thinks he is.

    And let's face it, the fact remains that people paid $$$ and got what they didn't order. And after taking into account what the Florint equivalent PPP of the USD value is...

    If you (as vox is hinting) need to run the Vass gauntlet to gain the 'right' to comment on this, well, this is a public forum where all are free to comment. I see vox commenting on all sorts of threads where he doesn't own the items in particular, what gives?

    I anticipate Vass joining the backlash bandwagon, where C&J and RLBL already are.
     
  9. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Well-Known Member

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    I hope that the forum will quickly tire of vox. I know that some already are. He isn't half as funny as he thinks he is. And let's face it, the fact remains that people paid $$$ and got what they didn't order. And after taking into account what the Florint equivalent PPP of the USD value is... If you (as vox is hinting) need to run the Vass gauntlet to gain the 'right' to comment on this, well, this is a public forum where all are free to comment. I see vox commenting on all sorts of threads where he doesn't own the items in particular, what gives? I anticipate Vass joining the backlash bandwagon, where C&J and RLBL already are.
    How about me, am I as funny as I think I am? If everyone on here stopped posting unless they knew what they were talking about, things would come to a grinding halt.[​IMG]
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    I hope that the forum will quickly tire of vox. I know that some already are. He isn't half as funny as he thinks he is.

    +1

    And let's face it, the fact remains that people paid $$$ and got what they didn't order. And after taking into account what the Florint equivalent PPP of the USD value is...

    Yes, but the OP paid those $$$ to an informal third party and not Vass. My point is not that it wouldn't be great to get things done as one expects (it is of course), but that a gray market process for obtaining shoes from a relatively small maker in Hungary that is not operating in 21st century Internet mode might have a degree of risk that a rational, calm person should expect. That's all. If you cannot stomach the risk, then do not buy these shoes (Vass) in this way (through virtual friends) at this price (cheaper than retail channels like Bergdorf or Louis.)

    Both larger shoemakers (search on "Manton" and "Oundle") and smaller bespoke shoemakers (search on "Cleverely," "screw," and "sole") have order reliabilty issues. That's just a fact of life. It would be great if it wasn't, but it is. I don't expect it to change either since it is often the case that where artisanship skills are high, business skills are not. It is hard to be good at everything...a good shoemaker is bound to be good at making shoes, and less good at everything else.

    If you transact these purchases through official retail channels, I would think that the retailer is going to do their best to make you whole in some manner. If you have bought directly from Vass, I assume that they would.

    If, on the other hand, you have iFriends who are buying the shoes for you at the lowest cost, your case for browbeating that person is probably not stupendous. You iFriend is being nice to you. It is probably quite unlikely that even if they are benefiting a bit from arbitrage that they are going to retire on the profit from being your Hungarian shoe intermediary.

    The time-honored StyleForvm solution? Put the shoes on the B&S forum. Someone will love your Vass just enough so that you losses will not be great.

    If you (as vox is hinting) need to run the Vass gauntlet to gain the 'right' to comment on this, well, this is a public forum where all are free to comment. I see vox commenting on all sorts of threads where he doesn't own the items in particular, what gives?

    I said nor hinted nothing of the sort. I did, however, bust Moo's balls...and he busts mine also.

    In fact, I find even the concept of having or not having "rights" on the Internet ridiculous. The part that you bold above is mother's milk.

    I anticipate Vass joining the backlash bandwagon, where C&J and RLBL already are.

    Good.


    - B
     
  11. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    vox - you keep repeating that point (which applies to the OP) but you seem to be ignoring all the other posters who bought directly from Vass - no third party, no official or grey retailer. That's a bit unfair IMO.
     
  12. instep

    instep Well-Known Member

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    I very much doubt the actual shoemakers are the ones taking orders, let alone stuffing them up.
     
  13. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I very much doubt the actual shoemakers are the ones taking orders, let alone stuffing them up.

    Quality control is not only about making the shoe, it's about checking them and the order before handing or shipping it to the customer.
     
  14. nioh

    nioh Well-Known Member

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    Quality control is not only about making the shoe, it's about checking them and the order before handing or shipping it to the customer.

    and with the correct shoe trees! got u-ones with my last f-order :/
     
  15. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    +1


    +1, vox though has gone from Overhyped to Backlash, to Backlash To The Backlash and is now currently perched up in Pre Buzz. By the end of this thread it might change.


    In fact, I find even the concept of having or not having "rights" on the Internet ridiculous. The part that you bold above is mother's milk.

    - B


    coming from farrah fawcett like pacifer nips? please?



    and with the correct shoe trees! got u-ones with my last f-order :/

    There is a subliminal message in there, I think. F last, U trees.
     
  16. Omega Man

    Omega Man Well-Known Member

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    Quality control is not only about making the shoe, it's about checking them and the order before handing or shipping it to the customer.

    +1. They reworked and sent me a pair in the wrong size after they acknowledged the mistake in the first pair.
     
  17. william

    william Well-Known Member

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    I anticipate Vass joining the backlash bandwagon, where C&J and RLBL already are.


    Good.

    Then maybe the orders will become accurate again.
     
  18. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Well-Known Member

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    I said nor hinted nothing of the sort. I did, however, bust Moo's balls...and he busts mine also.
    Definitely. ... but it's a custom order regardless of price, right? Are you saying that the blame should be placed on the middle-man? For instance, say you ordered a U-last size 42 shoe in Oxblood and got an F-last size 42.5 in Burgundy; the shoe is still wearable and similar to what you ordered, but it isn't what you ordered. Say you placed the order in one of two ways: 1) Called Vass directly, placed MTM order, or; 2) Placed the same MTM order through a forum member Who gets the blame in each case? What if Vass acknowledged fault in both cases, but didn't really offer a good enough solution? ("we'll get it right next time" kind of sucks, really) Would you be happy? I just don't get how a shoe maker can look at an order sheet, make the wrong shoe, probably look at the sheet after the shoe is done, see that it's not right, and mail it out.
     
  19. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    vox - you keep repeating that point (which applies to the OP) but you seem to be ignoring all the other posters who bought directly from Vass - no third party, no official or grey retailer. That's a bit unfair IMO.

    I am glad that you understood me on the first round. As for those who have had problems with direct orders, I didn't comment on that since the points stood on their own merit. There is also a difference between making a mistake and then refusing to make the mistake right. And there, I think Axelman's experience is, indeed, disappointing...although Miss Vass would not be the first small business owner to attempt to bargain away a mistake.

    The only thing that I did say that touches on direct ordering is that Vass are probably not set up to handle remote orders well, even if you contact then directly. I suspect their accustomed business are people who walk in to their shop or the shops of their distributors, order their shoes, and then pick up their shoes in person after trying them on...in which case, if the order is off, it will be known in a fashion that can be corrected relatively easily if not instantly. In other words, I think that they are old fashioned like most shoemakers. Perhaps they should refuse remote orders if their track record is wanting...although the only story in this thread so far of someone seeking redress is Axelman and the reference to Shooey. And that frequency doesn't sound much worse than many other providers of comparatively esoteric items of clothing.

    I am not saying in any way that this is right, only that you should prepared that this sort of might happen.

    There is a subliminal message in there, I think. F last, U trees.

    That made me laugh.

    Definitely.

    ... but it's a custom order regardless of price, right? Are you saying that the blame should be placed on the middle-man?.


    Yes, particularly if he ships the shoes to you. But, having said that, the degree of ire should be proportional to the uncertainties of an imperfect process into which you voluntarily entrust your money. There should be a degree of conviviality and forgiveness when you rely on iFriends to buy stuff on your behalf.

    At least, that's what I think.

    I received my last Vass MTO about a month an a half ago. It was as complicated as these things can get since the material for the uppers are not something that Vass stocks and so was provided to them seperately. A lot of the details were non-stock. The shoes arrived exactly as ordered...and the trees fit even though I'm at a half size in between full sizes. I am hopeful that the order that I have in process now, also involving leather shipped to them, will come out as well.

    At least in my experience, then, there has been no change in quality control: knock wood. But I don't infer that they are completely reliable since there is evidence in this thread that they are not.

    How's that?

    - B
     
  20. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    How's that?

    Hair splitter.
     

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