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'iGent Myths Busted!'

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VRaivio, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    I think these guys ought to really stick it to the man, have the courage of their convictions, etc.

    Time for a DB notch DJ, in brown.

    You have nothing to lose but your chains!
     
    3 people like this.
  2. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt Well-Known Member

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    Is that forum seriously still around?
     
  3. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    This is when you are at your best.
     
  4. JLibourel

    JLibourel Well-Known Member

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    Having paid at least a modest amount of attention to sartorial matters most of my fairly long adult life, including almost 40 years before I discovered the clothing fora, Sator's post merely confirms a lot of what I have suspected right along (and sometimes articulated here and elsewhere in forumland).
     
  5. Lovelace

    Lovelace Well-Known Member

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    I was actually at a black tie 'do' a few years back where I saw a man wearing a dark brown velvet smoking jacket. I liked it, had a louche, fin de siècle look to. If only he'd have been sipping Absinthe out of a Lalique glass.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Trompe le Monde

    Trompe le Monde Well-Known Member

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    most people cant seem to be able to think for themselves. sad
     
  7. RogerP

    RogerP Well-Known Member

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    Tip of the hat to Sator - well written and most informative.
     
  8. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    I bet I can find one case of someone thinking of themselves 150 years ago - the account being published in an obscure trade journal - that would prove your statement wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
    2 people like this.
  9. topos

    topos Well-Known Member

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    I don't get what the big deal is with "busting" the "iGent myth". I always thought the "rules", whatever they are, serve as an outline for a coherent means to build a wardrobe full of versatile pieces. So what if, for instance, there's some evidence that men did wear tuxedos with notched lapels? Whether or not that's "correct" isn't the point - the point seems to be that one should understand the difference between what the notched and peak lapels are supposed to convey and then decide for themselves what is most appropriate. But maybe it's more fun to suppose there are many god-given sets of "rules" and then have the various adherents wage a holy war upon one another. Or maybe I'm missing the point entirely here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Geezer

    Geezer Well-Known Member

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    +1

    I am tired of posting on this and other fora that there are no rules, only time and place-specific conventions.

    Item: I and every other middle-class Englishman that I knew grew up believing that a black full-brogue was acceptable CBD footwear in the UK.

    Apparently, we were all wrong, as were our fathers and grandfathers, from some of whom we inherited those black full brogues, because some Americans on the internet, reading books written by Americans or a German, said so.

    It is not relevant that I have not bought a pair of black full brogues in twenty years. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    If you want to be purely empirical about things, then of course, you will find there are no rules. You will always find counter-examples and changes in practice. However, if you are taking a purely empirical approach to interpreting classic men's dress, you are taking the wrong approach. You should be normative, in addition to empirical. Observe what has been done, try to understand why it was done, and then figure out what should be done. That's where rules come from.
     
  12. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Do I need to write a lengthy rebuttal to all this nonsense? It would be like a time machine taking us all back to 2005.
     
  13. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you already write a book?
     
  14. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't necessarily a rule bender in my mind, but he was definitely not just part of the Washington crowd. The picture of him in the tan suit, below, illustrated this, to my mind.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. cptjeff

    cptjeff Well-Known Member

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    The people telling me that longwings (or open laced shoes in general), medium or light gray suits (and I saw flannel suits included for a WTF moment) aren't CBD appropriate astound me. Rewind to the 50's for a moment. What was the iconic standard attire of the conservative city businessman? Mid gray flannel suit, black longwings, often in a pebble grain or shell. Made by Florsheim, of course.

    What was once the beau ideal of conservative attire somehow, through iGent reinterpretation, becomes inappropriate for conservative settings.
     
  16. Sander

    Sander Well-Known Member

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    Sator's observations may be very accurate (I don't know the sources nor have I any inclination to check them); yet I don't think they have any practical effect on a good dresser. A black suit, for example, may be "correct" - but this doesn't give you any more shirt and tie colors that compliment it. Shirt cuff showing may not have the strong tradition some want it to have - yet it just looks more balanced in my eyes.

    I have never even heard of the "grey suits preferred"-myth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  17. Veremund

    Veremund Well-Known Member

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  18. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Well-Known Member

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    That's brown? It renders as midnight blue on my iPhone.
     
  19. glenjay

    glenjay Well-Known Member

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    I like that in example #1 of that article/thread, suggesting that there was nothing unusual or novel about a black lounge suit, that the suit is made of vicuna. I rarely wear a black lounge suit, but if I had one made of vicuna, well that's another story altogether.

    I actually doubt that anyone on this forum has a black lounge suit of vicuna. Not the specific point of the article I realize, but relevant to not only changes in fashion, but changes in costs of materials as well.
     
  20. Big Texas

    Big Texas Well-Known Member

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    Anything that can be tried has been tried at some point, and as such, we could cherrypick historical examples in support of, or in opposition to, just about any "rule." If we really want to go that route, the intellectually honest exercise is to try to do enough research to discern the legitimate trends from the one-offs. (For example: a single Apparel Arts illustration, or a single ancient Brooks ad, is just that: a single datum. It signifies nothing other than that a certain clothing style existed at that point in time; it says nothing about whether the style was commonly accepted.)

    At any rate, many of the SF luminaries have been pretty candid about the fact that their "rules" are just as often drawn from personal preferences as from supposed traditions. Nobody's claiming to have received the rules on stone tablets. As with anything, however, a game of telephone gets played out over the years and across the various menswear blogs and forums. And so we end up with a confusing conflation of personal taste and appeals to (ostensible) historical precedent. That's not to say that there are no rules, or that certain traditions can't be legitimately ascertained. I'm just saying that we shouldn't carry on about the rules like armchair constitutional lawyers. (Or, if we insist on doing so, then we should be prepared to dig deeper and analyze more carefully than plucking singular examples from Google image search and citing them as broad examples).
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
    1 person likes this.

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