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I Just Bought a... (Wine, Spirit, or Beer)

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Huntsman, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    I guess we've been down this path before...buy the 2004 beringer knights valley alluvium for about $13, taste blind against the BV and two other cabs, report back.
    Good thing you'll not be invited over, so you'll not have to drink my swill [​IMG]
     
  2. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    I'm reminded of a dinner where the host served nothing but parker 100 point wines. As I'm in the business, he singled me out afterwards to ask what I though of the wine. My thought was that if, like my host, you have $100 million or so in the bank, you may as well spend the money. For me (and most of the rest of the population), the game is to find high QPR wine. That doesn't mean cheap wine, it means at every price level, finding the best QPR.

    I am asserting that you have chosen high quality wine that has a low QPR. If your net worth is such that you don't care about QPR, good on you. If you;re interested and get to NYC, bring your wine, I'll bring mine, we'll get a couple of other people involved, and we'll put it to the test.
     
  3. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    I'm reminded of a dinner where the host served nothing but parker 100 point wines. As I'm in the business, he singled me out afterwards to ask what I though of the wine. My thought was that if, like my host, you have $100 million or so in the bank, you may as well spend the money. For me (and most of the rest of the population), the game is to find high QPR wine. That doesn't mean cheap wine, it means at every price level, finding the best QPR. I am asserting that you have chosen high quality wine that has a low QPR. If your net worth is such that you don't care about QPR, good on you. If you;re interested and get to NYC, bring your wine, I'll bring mine, we'll get a couple of other people involved, and we'll put it to the test.
    You obviously are being quite selective in the many, many wines I have posted here. Some are very modest in price and considered to be high QPR. I have posted modestly priced zins, grenache, and pinots, as well as the occasional cab in the sub $20 price range. Now, you tell me you are in the business. I do not remember seeing a single picture of a purchase from you. I do remember you shitting on my parade more than once however. Frankly, I do not post my pictures here to be spoken to in this fashion. I did not know the aim of this thread was to be spoken to in a pedantic manner nor to have a mere slice of my posted purchases/pictures act as the sole measure of what I buy. I will refrain from posting any of my purchases here from here on in. I am out of this thread.
     
  4. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I was selectively pointing out the wine that had a low qpr in the hopes of saving you, and others that might follow your lead, some money. I think you are seriously over-reacting...I was dispassionaltely discussing the relative merit of a wine and you shifted to a personal attack.

    Be hard on the problem, easy on the person.
     
  5. Huntsman

    Huntsman Well-Known Member

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    I use wine, spirits, etc for some personal fulfillment, a little hedonism and pleasure to scare away the demons of the everyday. Drink what you like, taste, explore, try things, but in the end, drink what makes you happy. All the rest of the sophistry is crap -- even, dare I say it, the sainted QPR. That choice piece of alphabet soup doesn't account for the reality that a d'Yquem has non-intrincsic value to me that say, Doisy-Vedrines does not.

    Joy in our lives is measured by more than money.

    ~ Huntsman Ps -- nice Guiraud, Piobaire.
     
  6. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by the non-intrinsic value of d'Yquem. Certainly for all luxury goods, QPR is not a linear function but an asymptotic curve and in my book d'Yquem is a good QPR.
     
  7. Huntsman

    Huntsman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by the non-intrinsic value of d'Yquem. Certainly for all luxury goods, QPR is not a linear function but an asymptotic curve and in my book d'Yquem is a good QPR.
    I wouldn't argue that the QPR for luxury goods is a different function than inferior goods, but rather that 'luxury goods' are those normal goods located on the interval where the slope is shallow, following which diminishing returns occurs as the function approaches infinity. Regardless, what I mean about non-intrinsic value is that it means a lot to me that I possess a bottle of d'Yquem, independent of how it tastes. Because people say it's the best Sauternes and I collect the stuff? Perhaps. Because of the history of the Chateau? Perhaps. Because I find the label aesthetically pleasing? Perhaps. They all may add to the value of the bottle to me. This, like anything else when taken to an extreme, can get pretty ridiculous pretty fast -- I won't buy a wine merely for non-intrinsic (I admit it was a poor choice of words) value, or even if it's value is predominately of that type. I'm merely saying it can add value to a purchase. The worst thing about wine is the creeping snarkiness that allows purchasers anywhere along the spectrum the opportunity for snobbery. ~ Huntsman
     
  8. IUtoSLU

    IUtoSLU Well-Known Member

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    From my experience, those that criticize when no criticism was requested are often very self-conscious. Piobaire is a friendly contributor to what we celebrate in this thread - enjoying wine, spirits and beer. What we have categorically not enjoyed in this thread are snarky comments regarding one's preferences. You may claim that your comments were not antagonistic toward Pio, but let me assure you, they were viewed by myself as out of place and unwanted.
     
  9. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    The worst thing about wine is the creeping snarkiness that allows purchasers anywhere along the spectrum the opportunity for snobbery.
    ~ Huntsman


    I agree with your thoughts about non-intrinsic value and I sure do understand the impulse to collect...just look at my shoe collection.

    As you can imagine, exposure to snobbery is an occupational hazard in the wine business and I'm not just talking about customers. I ignore most of it but do occasionally need to take a deep breadth.

    I would say the worst thing about wine is the global loss of individualism to please one critic's palate. I'm an advocate of buying wine that reflects its orgin and is not over manipulated.
     
  10. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    From my experience, those that criticize when no criticism was requested are often very self-conscious. Piobaire is a friendly contributor to what we celebrate in this thread - enjoying wine, spirits and beer. What we have categorically not enjoyed in this thread are snarky comments regarding one's preferences. You may claim that your comments were not antagonistic toward Pio, but let me assure you, they were viewed by myself as out of place and unwanted.

    I wasn't stating my preferences, I was making the suggestion that piobare was overpaying for the quality of the wine and could do better elsewhere. I believe most people in the wine industry would agree with my assessment.

    I appreciate you feel my comments were antagonistic towards piobare but I'm having a hard time understanding it. It would be great if you could take a sentence or a set of sentences from my post and explain what you found as out of place and unwanted. This will help me moderate my responses in the future.

    thanks,
    vp
     
  11. Huntsman

    Huntsman Well-Known Member

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    Allow me...
    I guess we've been down this path before
    Condescending at a minimum, with the implication that some people are too stupid to learn.
    ...buy the 2004 beringer knights valley alluvium for about $13, taste blind against the BV and two other cabs, report back.
    The staccato voicing again indicates condescension from a superior --a sense that your are rolling your eyes as you typed. Taken with the prior fragment, I'd say you probably were.
    Good thing you'll not be invited over, so you'll not have to drink my swill [​IMG]
    This is a response in reasonably good grace.
    I'm reminded of a dinner where the host served nothing but parker 100 point wines. As I'm in the business, he singled me out afterwards to ask what I though of the wine. My thought was that if, like my host, you have $100 million or so in the bank, you may as well spend the money. For me (and most of the rest of the population), the game is to find high QPR wine. That doesn't mean cheap wine, it means at every price level, finding the best QPR. I am asserting that you have chosen high quality wine that has a low QPR. If your net worth is such that you don't care about QPR, good on you. If you;re interested and get to NYC, bring your wine, I'll bring mine, we'll get a couple of other people involved, and we'll put it to the test.
    The bolded sections indicate that you are playing the "not an everyman" card so often used in politics, and painting yourself as a sensible, normal guy who understands value for money, in apposition to "the others" who can just buy the purported best without having had to acquire the understanding and depth of knowledge you so clearly possess. This is the snarkiness that so characterizes reverse snobbery.
    Yup, I was selectively pointing out the wine that had a low qpr in the hopes of saving you, and others that might follow your lead, some money. I think you are seriously over-reacting...I was dispassionaltely discussing the relative merit of a wine and you shifted to a personal attack. Be hard on the problem, easy on the person.
    The first personal attack was yours, up there in bold above. As for substance, I learned nothing, because I don't know how the wine you spoke of compares. Is it just as good, or just incredible for it's pricepoint? Are the Cabs posted better, but at a huge toll in diminishing returns? "Be hard on the problem" indicates you feel there is a problem.
    I wasn't stating my preferences, I was making the suggestion that piobare was overpaying for the quality of the wine and could do better elsewhere. I believe most people in the wine industry would agree with my assessment. I appreciate you feel my comments were antagonistic towards piobare but I'm having a hard time understanding it. It would be great if you could take a sentence or a set of sentences from my post and explain what you found as out of place and unwanted. This will help me moderate my responses in the future. thanks, vp
    Not stating your preferences? So....that tells me that your words aren't merely your opinion, but that they are absolute standards?! A tad haughty, wouldn't you agree? Hopefully that has helped answer your questions. IUtoSLU may elaborate further, as could I, but those are the main indicators. Of course, you may have meant it another way, and I don't know you (didn't even know you had a shoe collection), but that's how you come across. ~ Huntsman
     
  12. IUtoSLU

    IUtoSLU Well-Known Member

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    Huntsman's post was on point. I'll simply add that almost every single one of your posts, vp, contained a very prominent form of snobbery by implication. See Huntsman's post for details...
     
  13. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Well-Known Member

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    Huntsman, thank you for taking the time to write your post. I have posted, written and published on wine for 15 years and have never garnered this type of reaction. Since there are three of you in agreement, I accept that I have offended Piobare, though it was not my intent, and offer my apologies to Piobare. If Piobare wants to continue to post, he can do so without my comments/suggestions in this thread.

    Here's what was running through my mind:

    <I guess we've been down this path before>
    <<Condescending at a minimum, with the implication that some people are too stupid to learn. >>

    Simply noting that I've made a similar suggestion to Piobare before.


    <<...buy the 2004 beringer knights valley alluvium for about $13, taste blind against the BV and two other cabs, report back.>>
    <The staccato voicing again indicates condescension from a superior --a sense that your are rolling your eyes as you typed. Taken with the prior fragment, I'd say you probably were.>

    The elipsis (if that's what you mean by stacato) indicates that I'm continuing a thought, too lazy to start a new sentence. I am suggesting that Beringer will perform as well as the BV and its a great deal for $13. In terms of substance, I would think most people would get the implication that the Beringer KV alluvium s worth trying as it performs like an expensive wine. Rather than rolling my eyes condescendingly, I am excited about the prospect of providing information to the forum after taking away so much on the subject of fashion.

    <The bolded sections indicate that you are playing the "not an everyman" card so often used in politics, and painting yourself as a sensible, normal guy who understands value for money, in apposition to "the others" who can just buy the purported best without having had to acquire the understanding and depth of knowledge you so clearly possess. This is the snarkiness that so characterizes reverse snobbery.>

    My motivation for this post was two-fold. I wanted to state that Piobare was not buying "swill". Instead he is buying high quality wine. The other point was that for some reason, perhaps from other posts, I had the sense that Piobare indeed was well-to-do and I was stating that if that was the case 1) good for him and 2) not worrying about qpr makes sense.

    I see you disregard my invitation to break bread, drink some wine and see how the BV performs against other wine.


    <Not stating your preferences? So....that tells me that your words aren't merely your opinion, but that they are absolute standards?! A tad haughty, wouldn't you agree?>

    I think you will find a general consensus in the industry that the BV is overpriced. I'm not sure why this is haughty.

    My sole motivation in writing this was to expose Piobare and others to a wine that might perform as well as the expensive and overpriced BV. There is a river of world class, great wine that can be had for a song and I had hoped to share that information in this thread. On every other (admittedly wine) forum where I've provided similar information, people have thanked me for this information and as I stated, this is a first in terms of reaction. I will definitely think about what I wrote, how it was received and why it wasn't accepted. I won't post in this forum on wine again.

    thanks again huntsman for your time and thoughts.
     
  14. kronik

    kronik Well-Known Member

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    Having no prior experience with vp's posts with regards to Piobaire wine-buying habits, I'd have to say I didn't find his comments offensive/condescending. He was suggesting that the guy try something else in an effort to save himself some money. No one would say that it was condescending to suggest buying AE chelseas over some RM chelseas if the differences were so minute that they were inconsequential to most (purely anecdotal, no need for QPR debates regarding either brand). It seems anyone who considers themselves a connoisseur regarding things traditionally relegated to the wealthier/upper-class take any comment that they can do better for the price as an affront. Perhaps I've misunderstood what all the hub-bub is about.

    My palette for wine/spirits/beer is nowhere near as refined as many of yours, but I have the same inclination towards luxury goods as most of you. That being said, I'd love a list of wines to fill my alcoholic coffers without breaking the bank. If I went out and bought a Lafite-Rothschild that could be damned near replicated by a $8 bottle at Trader Joe's, you better fuckwell tell me.

    In summation (throws gentlemanly pursuits out of the window), stop getting all butthurt over drinks. They're just drinks. Drink them, enjoy them.
     
  15. Tarmac

    Tarmac Well-Known Member

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    Just shut up and post something you bought
     
  16. kronik

    kronik Well-Known Member

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    Just shut up and post something you bought
    Quoted for irony. Recent pickups: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. Connemara

    Connemara Well-Known Member

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    What the fuck is Wild Irish Rose? That looks like something a freshman girl would drink.

    "Ohmigawd, let's put it in, like, lemonade! Soooo delicious!"
     
  18. kronik

    kronik Well-Known Member

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  19. CTGuy

    CTGuy Well-Known Member

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    What the fuck is Wild Irish Rose? That looks like something a freshman girl would drink.

    "Ohmigawd, let's put it in, like, lemonade! Soooo delicious!"


    It's bum wine. In other words: it's right up your alley.
     
  20. CTGuy

    CTGuy Well-Known Member

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    This thread makes my fucking head hurt. Post what you bought and cut the chit chat.
     

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