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I don't get it, why buy a €5000 Brioni or Kiton suit when you can go bespoke?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Young Gentleman, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Quote:
    I don't think I have ever been to a party as dull as the kind where someone would be impressed by the label of my suit or even where I would think of showing someone the label of my suit in order to try to impress them.
     
  2. W.R.

    W.R. Well-Known Member

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    I disagree here. An Attolini garment is arguably as well made as a Kiton suit. RTW garments will not fit you perfectly, nor will a bespoke suit made for someone else. Assuming the person which the bespoke was originally made for has a quite normal build, both suits would need the equal amount of alterations (probably slightly more alterations is needed for the bespoke garment, but I'm trying to make a point here). Then, it doesn't really make sense why an used Kiton suit costs three times the amount of an used Attolini bespoke suit.
     
  3. AlexE

    AlexE Well-Known Member

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    Never claimed that you should nor that I would. However, do you doubt that it happens?
     
  4. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Well-Known Member

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    Faux pas also came up, but I thought fupa more appropriate given B's reference to an expanding waistline.


    I think I was more referring to eBay sellers who use bespoke as a selling point. As if to infer that bespoke means that it is the highest quality and is inherently better than anything RTW. I have seen many auctions for some no-name tailor's 1980s shoddy "bespoke" work go for quite a lot. And it seems that the only reason that people were looking to pay more is because they think that bespoke is superior to RTW, no matter the circumstance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  5. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Well-Known Member

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    I doubt its common. In fact, I'd wager it hardly ever happens unless someone first mentions they like the suit and inquire about the maker.
     
  6. catside

    catside Well-Known Member

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    My shoes must be better than clothes, since people inquire about the shoes. Most inquiries were not for British stuff but a pair of Wolverine wellingtons in nubuck which were later eaten by my dog, so it's bad luck! :D. Vintage tweed jackets which is a particular interest of mine always gets inquiries. Rarely ties. Interesting cufflinks get inquiries, also emblematic ties because I guess that is what they are designed to do.
    No I can't imagine a regular suit, whether it's Kiton or bespoke get an inquiry or people showing each other labels unless it is a confluence of vain people like the SF crowd. It's us!
     
  7. sugarglider unrelism

    sugarglider unrelism Member

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    Hello,

    I feel that yours is the mos sensible reply to the gentleman's Brion, Kiton off the rack vs. bespoke.

    However......personally I would never put Armani in the same sentence, let alone league, as Brioni or Zegna.

    What think you?

    Respectfully,

    Mike
     
  8. WiseMenOfGotham

    WiseMenOfGotham Well-Known Member

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    I recently got 2 Brioni sportcoats back from my tailor. I'm a 42S and usually get the chest reduced and waist taken in significantly. For the price of Brioni, you are paying for the styling (fabric, fit, etc) and the handmade appeal in my opinion. I've gone MTM in the past and have mixed opinions of it when comparing it to my OTR purchases that I have tailored; however I love the freedom of picking my own fabric and styling options. A lot of people try to sell "bespoke", but in reality it's more MTM than true Savile Row bespoke.

    When I asked the Brioni sales rep that I deal with about MTM Brioni prices and why I shouldn't go Savile Row bespoke, he simply responded that Brioni's style is Brioni's style. If you want classic English, go to Savile Row to spend your money. If you want Italian, go to the appropriate place. I can't say I completely agree with this, being that most true bespoke tailors can emulate the style you're looking for. However after having a few appointments for "bespoke" suiting, I found that most of them had a MTM approach and that I would rather wait and go somewhere reputable for the price point. I have yet to try Chris Despos, but I'm sure that I would have an excellent experience if I decide to go that route and have the time to wait, which is probably the greatest issue with going bespoke. A lot of people don't have the time for fittings and to wait several weeks for a garment.

    I have items from a number of brands, from Brooks Brothers to Brioni. I think each serves a purpose. In the end, no one needs a jacket or suit that costs $4k+. However if you want to go bespoke or Brioni/Kiton, go with whatever "feels" and looks right to you, it is your money after all.
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    I would say that, at least for me, I've often chosen RTW, first because I'm a coward, second because I'm a poor designer.

    I've done bespoke several times (no, I don't actually have enough money to do bespoke, but thanks, family and friends), and, well, before I changed my exercise routines, they were the best fitting suits I have. However, they were pretty boring suits. Pete, our editor-in-chief, and I, spoke to Mr. Ned (not his real name), who does pretty good MTM, and he said that far and away, guys get charcoal and navy suits. That's what I did. For most guys, a bold suit is difficult to make a reality, especially because you have to invest both time and money, and it's hard to see how a swatch is going to translate into an entire suit.

    When you see something amazing on a hanger, or on a dummy, though, and the fit is pretty decent off the rack, you aren't filled with trepidation that you've chosen a pattern that is too bold, a cut that is too fashionable, or not fashionable enough. You are really satisfied that "this, this is what I want." And at that point, it's way too much work to go to a tailor, find the right fabric, choose the right trims, and communicate the cut and details that I'd like. It's just much easier to get the garment on the spot, and get it altered. I suppose that if I were a less of a pussy, and/or had really, really, trusted a specific tailor, I'd be more likely to go bespoke for that suit that I will wear once, maybe twice, a year.

    The other thing is that I sometimes see a great design element or detail that really draws my eye and surprises me in a good way. I'm not a conservative dresser by MC standards, and for example, I like the textural blocking in coats and jackets by Balenciaga. If I tried to do the same thing with bespoke, I'd have a hell of a time communicating what I wanted to the tailor (unless that tailor is really familiar with Balenciaga, and I've not met that guy yet), and I wouldn't be confident in my ability to get the design right anyway.

    I do more bespoke for casual clothes and I do MTO shoes, but even there, I find my design skills lacking, and often, what I end up getting are variations on a designer garment or pair of boots that I saw, by some designer.

    I think that bespoke is good for some people, and bad for others, depending on needs, temperament, and whether you can find the right tailor for you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  10. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Armani had a profound effect on the evolution of menswear. You might not like his silhouettes, you might not like his taste in patterns or materials, you might even say that he is over the hill, but his impact on menswear has been inarguable.
     
  11. johanm

    johanm Well-Known Member

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    I think bespoke is catching on with the youth, i.e. 20 and 30 somethings who know how to use the internet. There are signs for when people wear bespoke / Styleforum inspired stuff. For example, wool ties, flannel suits, blazers with patch pockets, shoes from hard-to-find makes like Vass and Edward Green. Several people my age in my office wear this stuff on a regular basis. The funny thing is that the old rich guys mostly wear baggy single vented suits and Hermes ties. Kudos to SF for raising the bar.
     
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Styleforum is a really big site, arguably the biggest independent forum that is really focused on men's tailored clothing - we are well above 1 million unique viewers per month right now, and most people in the #menswear blogosphere are at least aware of it.

    That said, there are a lot of things going on outside of the internet, and a lot of market forces at play, not to mention a lot of influential voices on the internet. I would say that waht goes on on Styleforum is definitely a part of the ongoing dialogue in menswear, but that we just reflect the zeitgeist.
     
  13. add911_11

    add911_11 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you are right, but I am unsure about people from 20-30s are catching up with mens clothing

    Those people got to have some money to burn, there is plenty of guys not from Uk public school who don't even know how to tie a tie.....
     
  14. wintourh007

    wintourh007 Active Member

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    I for one agree with convenience, if something off-the-rack fits you well and you swear by it, why would I want anything else.
     
  15. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    I would love it if you wrote more about this topic. Apart from the subject being very interesting, I think you are one of the few people in a position to know what you are writing about.

    Do you know how much the manufacturers pay attention to the blogosphere to spot trends and tailor their offerings. Does it divide along lines like youth v. mature or cutting edge v. established high-end brands, low cost v. high?
    How about at the bespoke level? Do the tailors pay attention to what is being written about them? I think some do, or at least their customers may tell them, but I wonder what your perspective is on that.
    What do you think of SF's role in helping the blow-up (in the positive and negative sense) of someone like Ambrosi and now Napoli su Misura?
     
  16. johanm

    johanm Well-Known Member

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    I think you're being modest with respect to tailored clothing. With streetwear, I doubt SF is that influential as there are several other major sources for inspiration, like other forums, magazines, TV, runway shows, and what you see on the street day to day. With tailored clothing, most guys are pretty clueless until they are in college or grad school and are figuring out what to wear to their job interviews. Back in the day, people would go to Brooks Brothers or a department store and ask a salesman. Now, people are accustomed to doing google research before making basically any consumer decision, and SF has become to tailored clothes what Yelp is to restaurants.
     
  17. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    Quoted for later and frequent re-quotation
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    Is this the first time that you've used the word, "blogosphere?"
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that I would call each time in stitches clicks through to a page a "unique" visit, although he is special to all of us.
     
  20. johanm

    johanm Well-Known Member

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    :confused: Am I going to be the butt of a lot of jokes?

    Seriously though, I view young people who wear bad tailored clothes like friends who make reservations at shitty restaurants because they failed to read the Yelp reviews, or insist on seeing shitty movies because they didn't check Metacritic, etc.
     
    1 person likes this.

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