I don't get it, why buy a €5000 Brioni or Kiton suit when you can go bespoke?

[MikeDT]



I doubt many Chinese know about Brioni or Kiton.  Most tend to be nouveau riche and therefore look towards the most aggressively marketed/visible brands.

Yup...indeed they do. Not so much Kiton though, not yet.

 

[emc894]

I have tried bespoke twice and was not happy with my results. I am much more happy with Isaia caliber suits off the rack.

 

[The Thin Man]



Could someone who regularly buys both bespoke and 4 digit price tag brands explain what he likes about both options? I think this would be interesting.

I refer you to the collected works of the Style Forum worthy mafoofan.

 

[taxgenius]



I have tried bespoke twice and was not happy with my results. I am much more happy with Isaia caliber suits off the rack.

What was your biggest issue with bespoke?

 

[dragon8]



Most good tailors have hundreds if not thousands of fabrics, buttons and linings available. And if you still can't find something you fancy you could buy a few meters of cloth somewhere else and send it to your tailor! As for the fit a good tailor should be able to offer about any fit you want! Don't like the cut? Try another tailor, many have their very own house style! As for the wait there is an in between option, with MTM, my tailor is able to make MTM suits in under a month.

Kiton fabrics are quite exclusive and nice to the touch. No tailors or few tailors can get access to them if they are available. No tailor can ever successfully duplicate a cut so if you look a certain cut get the suit.

 

[F. Corbera]



Some guys like the convenience. Some like the brand cachet. Some like seeing what they're getting. Some want certain cuts and styling.
The trouble with bespoke is that there's more to it than just proper fit. A tailor is craftsman, fitter and stylist. It's hard enough to find a tailor who is good at one, much less all three.
There are a few tailors near me I could use. From what I've seen of their work, they produce full-cut business suits of the most conservative stripe for conservative older businessmen. I'm not inclined to use any of them because I'm not interested in looking like a conservative older businessman.
There's plenty of bad bespoke out there. You see a good bit of it on the forums. Poor fit, dowdy styling, etc. So, from my perspective, it's important to recognize the work of the really great tailors, rather than talking about "bespoke" as though it's all the same path to exquisite style.
Unfortunately, there just aren't that many great tailors left these days.

These are all good and valid points, but they are orthogonal to the question that the OP is asking.

The American retail customer of the most expensively made and marketed RTW tailored clothing is the rarest bird on places like SF, the home of the bargain hunter, the thrifter, and the guy interested enough in clothes to think and do "bespoke."

1. Buying decisions for the full-price retail customer are often made by their spouse or girlfriend. Period. And women who shop for hubby or boyfriend like brand names marketed like world brands for women's clothing.

2. The existence of dowdy bespoke does not ever even enter the framework of thinking for such guys. They do not know it exists, and barely know...if at all...that tiny shops with tailors producing bench made clothes exist. They are not mulling this point..."good" versus "bad" bespoke...over as a decision factor. They have probably heard of Savile Row (if we are talking about Americans) but that's about it. If they have any interest in clothes (and many don't), they will know Neiman-Marcus or similiar chain, and maybe the best local retailer/haberdashery. They'll go there, and two things will happen:

a. Entire ensembles will be conjured up in minutes by salesmen. This cannot be done in in the bespoke world except in rare cases. This is a great convenience if you do not know that you should be asking strangers on the Internet about how to dress (those fools!)

b. Any expression of interest in "custom" work will be countered with the assertion that the typical suspects do, indeed, offer "custom." During the end of my shopping days at Louis, for example, they were selling "Oxxford Bespoke 2000." Certainly, the Brioni and Oxxford stuff that I ordered throught the 90s there and at another Boston shop was cast as "custom." And it was, in a certain way of thinking.

3. The price level of Kiton on down is not the range of cost optimization interest for many full-price retail buyers. In other words, optimizing the "value" aspect of it is not a big factor. "That jacket costs $6K? Fine. I'll take three. No, I won't be in town...send it to my office."

The main factor that moves such guys from that world to the bespoke world is something simple: seeing another guy like them, from their milieu, who is dressed in bespoke clothes, and thinking that the other guy looks great.

Then, the veil is lifted. But, since such guys are congregated in serious numbers in only a few cities and only in a few professional and social niches, the odds of encountering one in real life are low in most locations.

So, the veil stays put.

 

[DocHolliday]



These are all good and valid points, but they are orthogonal to the question that the OP is asking.

Only the first part was meant to answer the question. The rest was a response to the implicit suggestion, thankfully less common now than in the past, that "going bespoke" is inherently going to produce superior results to buying RTW.

"Go bespoke and get perfect fit!!1!"

 

[ColdEyedPugilist]



These are all good and valid points, but they are orthogonal to the question that the OP is asking.
The American retail customer of the most expensively made and marketed RTW tailored clothing is the rarest bird on places like SF, the home of the bargain hunter, the thrifter, and the guy interested enough in clothes to think and do "bespoke."
1. Buying decisions for the full-price retail customer are often made by their spouse or girlfriend. Period. And women who shop for hubby or boyfriend like brand names marketed like world brands for women's clothing.
2. The existence of dowdy bespoke does not ever even enter the framework of thinking for such guys. They do not know it exists, and barely know...if at all...that tiny shops with tailors producing bench made clothes exist. They are not mulling this point..."good" versus "bad" bespoke...over as a decision factor. They have probably heard of Savile Row (if we are talking about Americans) but that's about it. If they have any interest in clothes (and many don't), they will know Neiman-Marcus or similiar chain, and maybe the best local retailer/haberdashery. They'll go there, and two things will happen:
a. Entire ensembles will be conjured up in minutes by salesmen. This cannot be done in in the bespoke world except in rare cases. This is a great convenience if you do not know that you should be asking strangers on the Internet about how to dress (those fools!)
b. Any expression of interest in "custom" work will be countered with the assertion that the typical suspects do, indeed, offer "custom." During the end of my shopping days at Louis, for example, they were selling "Oxxford Bespoke 2000." Certainly, the Brioni and Oxxford stuff that I ordered throught the 90s there and at another Boston shop was cast as "custom." And it was, in a certain way of thinking.
3. The price level of Kiton on down is not the range of cost optimization interest for many full-price retail buyers. In other words, optimizing the "value" aspect of it is not a big factor. "That jacket costs $6K? Fine. I'll take three. No, I won't be in town...send it to my office."
The main factor that moves such guys from that world to the bespoke world is something simple: seeing another guy like them, from their milieu, who is dressed in bespoke clothes, and thinking that the other guy looks great.
Then, the veil is lifted. But, since such guys are congregated in serious numbers in only a few cities and only in a few professional and social niches, the odds of encountering one in real life are low in most locations.
So, the veil stays put.

"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -Morpheus

 

[F. Corbera]



Only the first part was meant to answer the question. The rest was a response to the implicit suggestion, thankfully less common now than in the past, that "going bespoke" is inherently going to produce superior results to buying RTW.
"Go bespoke and get perfect fit!!1!"

I agree with that.

I will note, however without claiming this is scientific or overly meaningful, that in TRINI's pinned "WAYWRN Hall of Fame" thread, out of the twelve guys in the OP, nine are entirely or nearly completely in bespoke clothes, one is largely in MTM, and two are largely in altered RTW. The bespoke group would be ten out of thirteen if someone hadn't insisted that all his photos be removed.

So, to get beyond a certain point, the tradition of bespoke tailoring seems to be useful.

 

[Despos]



The main factor that moves such guys from that world to the bespoke world is something simple: seeing another guy like them, from their milieu, who is dressed in bespoke clothes, and thinking that the other guy looks great.

This accounts for the majority of my clientele, old and new.

Do you have a minute? I'll tell you my favorite story along these lines. My store used to be in the same complex and next to Stanley Korshak. A man is shopping for suits in Korshak and tries on every brand in the store. Frustrated salesman, excuse me, customer service professional, asks him "what are you looking for" gentleman says " I want a suit like that man is wearing" and points to a man across the room. They both approach the man and ask what suit he is wearing. "Despos, he's right next door". Gentleman walks over and orders a suit and has been a client since.
Do you love that story as much as I do?

 

[MyOtherLife]

Yes!

 

[Despos]



I have tried bespoke twice and was not happy with my results. I am much more happy with Isaia caliber suits off the rack.

I've tried liver several times and I don't like it!

 

[dragon8]



This accounts for the majority of my clientele, old and new.
Do you have a minute? I'll tell you my favorite story along these lines. My store used to be in the same complex and next to Stanley Korshak. A man is shopping for suits in Korshak and tries on every brand in the store. Frustrated salesman, excuse me, customer service professional, asks him "what are you looking for" gentleman says " I want a suit like that man is wearing" and points to a man across the room. They both approach the man and ask what suit he is wearing. "Despos, he's right next door". Gentleman walks over and orders a suit and has been a client since.
Do you love that story as much as I do?

But what's he doing at Stanley Korshak?

 

[Mildly Consumptive]



This accounts for the majority of my clientele, old and new.
Do you have a minute? I'll tell you my favorite story along these lines. My store used to be in the same complex and next to Stanley Korshak. A man is shopping for suits in Korshak and tries on every brand in the store. Frustrated salesman, excuse me, customer service professional, asks him "what are you looking for" gentleman says " I want a suit like that man is wearing" and points to a man across the room. They both approach the man and ask what suit he is wearing. "Despos, he's right next door". Gentleman walks over and orders a suit and has been a client since.
Do you love that story as much as I do?

Well, I like that story, but I wouldn't say I love it. Maybe I just don't know it well enough.

 

[F. Corbera]



I've tried liver several times and I don't like it!

Come on...try the right kind:



Galette de champignons de Paris et foie gras mariné au verjus, huile de noisette, citron confit at l'Astrance.