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I can't stand italian clothing

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Horace, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    It's been bothering me for a long time now. I simply can't take it.

    All this Italian stuff --- horrible.

    You all must buy top-shelf American or English things from now on.

    That means suits, ties, shirts, shoes, leather goods, etc.

    No more Italian. Stop it. Only Anglo-American or British cut clothing.

    Thank you.

    H.

    P.S. Unless Spalla personally okays it.
     
  2. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please buy ray-ban glasses, brooks-brothers suits and shirts, church's shoes ... [​IMG] (all of that is italian property if you don't know). Anyway ... this lack a bit of arguments ... please just add some. Explain, why? Personally I prefer english shoes, love american (Alden). I love british fabrics and suit cut; but I prefer italian ties and love our tailors also.
     
  3. MPS

    MPS Well-Known Member

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    I never buy Italian shoes, suits or shirts: I have a few Italian ties, however. I can honestly say that if I go into a shoe shop like Campagnia in Rome I see more styles that I like than I do in any other store I've visited (including the EG store in the Burlington arcade).

    I think that we should forgive other nations their peculiarities (for example, I haven't launched an attack directed at the "2 1/2" button coat - this is a style that I don't care for, but which seems to be popular with my American friends).
     
  4. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Id love for you to find fault with about a hundred Italian clothing companies that I can name, but I will start with my favorite - Gianluca Isaia. Horace, should you make even a slightly intelligent argument as to why this company is inferior to American or British clothing companies, you are a smarter man than I. Im assuming your post was a joke.
     
  5. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    Wow, did I write that? Sounds like a sophomoric troll.

    I will address the issue of some strains of Italian tailoring of which I am not completely ignorant, a bit later. I must shuffle off to work now.

    But do let me say now that my objections are more aesthetic (at this point) than anything else. There are exceptions, but I just don't think most of the styling looks good. There are a few shoulders that Spalla's discussed on London Lounge that appeal to me, but not many.

    Having tried to back-pedal, do let me state for the record that I bow to no one in my admiration for Italian Culture (other than clothing) and that includes architecture, literature (where would we be without Petrarch), painting, opera, (and with certian reservations) philosophy.
     
  6. AlanC

    AlanC Well-Known Member

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    Way to stir the pot, Horace. Long live Anglophilia. [​IMG]
     
  7. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Well-Known Member

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    Watch - Swiss.
    Suit - Italian
    Shirt - whoever.
    Shoes - English.
    Food - Korean, Chinese, and Thai
    Woman - hmmm ...

    These are my preference. It will change depending on other factors.
     
  8. arvi

    arvi Well-Known Member

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    ciao horace,
    perhaps we could see a foto of you in all your non-italian sartorial glory..i would say that some of the finest british and american styling is influenced by italy..also some of italy's most beautiful garments are designed with british influence..
     
  9. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Well-Known Member

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    Ok Horace, I feared it was an "idealogic" argument. But now I'm waiting your arguments. As I said, I love british style (not American, I think it is pretty different). The way you said, it was like "French wine is horrible". I like french, italian, american, german, australian, latin-american wine ... for different reasons. For example I like neapolitan style, but I will not dress that, for the moment; too much flashy. I like english, understated tailor cut. I'm sorry I don't like american cut (sack suit, oxxford and similar) I find it banal and "poor". This is aesthetically. MilanoStyle, we have similar tastes, except food ... italian. [​IMG]
     
  10. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    you just beat me to it Arvi. It has been a very long time since someone could divide clothing styles along national lines. There used to be the American suit, the British suit, and the Italian suit. These were easily distinguishable by their unique fit and style characteristics, and that was that. That was a very very long time ago. These days you have American companies making Italian suits, and vice versa. British companies with Italian influence, etc. Not only that, the style cues that separated the national identities can all be found on the same suit at once. What I think you are referring to, and please correct me if I am wrong, is the more unique and offbeat styles that generally come out of Italy. The silly shoes, the funky ties, the now much maligned Armani cut of the 80s. Because alot of people associate those things with Italy, it has become a bit of a stigma. If you think about it, however, the same holds true in the rest of the world. For every BB Alden shoe that you probably love, there are 10 atrocious Kenneth Cole/et al. square toed monstrocities that you are ignoring. For every well dressed conservative Brit, picture some of the rather eccentric styles that emerged from that country in the 60s and 70s. Every country has both good and bad looks. For some reason you are focusing on the good looks of the Americans and the Brits, yet only focusing on the odd and ugly looks thats sometime malign the Italians. The truth of it is Italy has the majority of the best tailors, designers, etc. in the entire world as far as the clothing business goes. Italian companies pride themselves on innovation, on creativity, and because of that have some of the most beautifully styled clothes, but unfortunately some of the ugliest.

    to simply say you dont like Italian styled clothes is too much of a generalization. What you should say is you dont like ugly Italian clothes, and neither do I. You wouldnt catch me in a pair of those silly Italian shoes with the huge welt running around it like a rain gutter if they were given to me.
     
  11. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Phil,

    I subscribe entirely what you wrote. Well done.
     
  12. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    grazie signore
     
  13. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Well-Known Member

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    Most of the older forum members grew up with the Brooks Brothers look of the '60s and many now have transferred their allegiances to Italian-made clothes that relate to or mimic this old style (e.g. gray flannel Barbera slacks in 2004 instead of Brooks Brothers flannels in 1965). Armani doesn't seem related in philosophy. Style is more the question, not provenance.

    Edit: Note that the best Brooks suits are now made in Italy by Cantarelli.
     
  14. arvi

    arvi Well-Known Member

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    i think all of us here dislike ugly clothes regardless of origin.but i still feel that overall italy has the most beautiful designs and styling. of course we here have our Tommy [​IMG] (for those us us obsessed with espresso/cappuccino making here's agood site with interesting links : http://www.gurus.net/pavoni/
     
  15. bryce330

    bryce330 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand if you prefer English tailoring, shirts, shoes, etc., to that of the Italians (although I disagree completely, except for shoes), but how on earth can any sane person prefer American (the land of sack suits, tasseled loafers, and boxy button-down shirts) to Italian?
     
  16. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was hilarious and intended to be a joke in that jab-elbow-at-establishment sort of way. [​IMG] From my personal experience, some of the ugliest, square-toed shoes are touted to be "Italian." I don't know if Italy is responsible for making these or if they just say "Made in Italy" to attract buyers, but man I remember some horrible shoes like these.
     
  17. AlanC

    AlanC Well-Known Member

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    Ah, dismissive of the classic American look. Its adherents are out there as you can see from this thread.
     
  18. tdial

    tdial Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, well, peeling away the layers put into this Ric Flair style argument, it's a decent position, though I'd rather it backed by examples, etc. Silly me.

    As for me, if some clothing god came down and made me choose one manufacturer for each article of clothing on my body (excluding underwear and socks), and I didn't have an unlimited budget (ie, can't do bespoke everything), here's what I'd go with:

    Borrelli shirts. Simply put, the best I've ever worn. Apologies to T&A, which are nice, but a Borrelli shirt has much more elegant hand work and just feel like butter. Never would buy a $500 RTW Kiton or $450 RTW Brioni, so they don't make the top of the list. Shirt: Italian. Italy leads 1-nil.

    Suit: Remember, no $5000 Bespoke allowed. So, I am going to once again go with Borrelli. At $2900 RTW (don't know what the MTM costs), a real "bargain" when you consider many tailors/experts consider them as well if not better constructed than Kiton. Fabrics aren't Kiton-like, but are $2K USD cheaper. Soft shoulder, tapered arms, puckered sleeve head, ah.. Suit: Italian. Italy leads 2-nil.

    Ties: Nothing beats a Kiton tie. Nothing. $200 for a 7-fold at full retail is ridiculous. So we'll go with a luxurious 7-fold with the thicker fabric from our very own Carlo Franco. At ~$90 USD, it's a steal. You can buy many Carlos and you'd never know they weren't Kiton until you see the label. Gorgeous stuff. But, Carlo must make sure his fabrics never tail off. Thick, soft, buttery silk is what makes a super pattern tie, a la Kiton. Ties: Tie (ha.), Kiton and Carlo Franco. Italy and US. Italy leads 3-0 (to 1, US).

    Shoes: And here is where British shoes make up for the suit, tie, and shirt losses. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, beats an English shoe. Yes, I know there are super high end Italian shoes, etc. But for those of us in the real world who have to consider mortgage payments, sending kids to school, etc. there really isn't a better quality shoe for its value than Edward Green (or, in my case, since $700 is still too much for me for a pair of shoes), C&J Hand Grade. John Lobb doesn't get to play in this game, since again, we have to pay mortgages, etc. Compare C&J and EG to their Italian rivals and I don't think it's a match. But I admit, I am not as knowledgable in this area as others, so I defer final judgement. But in my opinion, you go to Italy for fine clothes, but go to England for fine shoes. Shoes: UK. And since this is a hybrid boxing, soccer scoring system, we'll give the UK 2 points for this one. Honorable mention to Alden from the US. Score, Italy 3, UK 2, US 1.

    Final score here folks, from TDial Stadium (there might be other "games" going on in this thread, so this is just Game 1. Okay, so maybe the scoring is a la soccer, boxing, with a baseball playoffs multiple game format), it's Italy 3, UK 2, US 1.

    So that'd be a Borrelli suit w/ a Borrelli shirt, a Carlo Franco tie (or Kiton, if you have one), with EG or C&J (or Grenson, for those on this board) shoes. You're looking sharp, you have on some of the best clothes made anywhere, and your kids can still go to college.
     
  19. FIHTies

    FIHTies Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me but what is American about CF ties? The silks are Italian as is the construction.
    The fact that the owner of the company resides in Texas shouldnt make difference in determining what the nationality of his product is.

    JJF
     
  20. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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