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How We Used to Dress

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by comrade, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. comrade

    comrade Well-Known Member

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    1 person likes this.
  2. David Copeland

    David Copeland Well-Known Member

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    Originally from Newport Beach - Now living in West
    My boss insists that all men and women dress in business attire every day except Friday (which is casual). The women are required to wear either a dress or skirt (no slacks).

    Funny thing happened as the newcomers got used to it - - - they felt and performed better, and began to look forward to a business attire every day.

    In the meantime, our colleagues at other offices who have gone with the flow of more casual have suffered in too many ways to mention.

    All my best,

    David
    [​IMG]
     
  3. irgendwas

    irgendwas Well-Known Member

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    If you support traditional business attire, casual fridays can be considered a hypocrisy.
    Additionally, I think the reason why women aren't allowed to wear trousers can only be conservativism with a sexist undertone (distinct from wanting one's staff to look professional). After all, long trousers (if they aren't especially slim) are more modest than a skirt, assuming the skirt isn't ankle-length or longer. While a skirt is more traditional for women's business attire than trousers, I don't understand why women wearing a skirt should look more professional than those wearing trousers.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. David Copeland

    David Copeland Well-Known Member

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    My earlier post reflected what my employer's policy was . . . not mine.

    It also reflected the results of the policy, which proved to be better for both the men and the women who chose to abide by the policy.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. msulinski

    msulinski Well-Known Member

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    Quote:Yeah I can't see a good reason for this other than the boss likes ogling the women. This would never fly in a larger company. I think the employer is opening himself up to a potential lawsuit.

    As for the employees feeling better due to the dress code, I assume the women would feel just as good with the option of pant suits or skirts.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. aravenel

    aravenel Well-Known Member

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    Ha, yeah, that is 100% a lawsuit waiting to happen. That guy is a chump.
     
  7. Off My Rack

    Off My Rack Well-Known Member

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    There are actually some federal court judges that have that same policy...
     
  8. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    Historically, pants on women were considered immodest and skirts and dresses considered more modest (though some of this may have due to said sexist undertones). I'm not trying to suggest that the policy is defensible and think it's kind of silly to tell women they can't wear pants, but I'm not so sure that an appropriate length skirt suit or dress is necessarily less modest than an equivalent pant suit or that long trousers are more modest than a skirt.
     
  9. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Well-Known Member

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    It was a turning point on Mad Men this season when Peggy donned a pant suit.
     
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  10. Calder

    Calder Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the article linked by OP, the only thing that photo tells you really is that hats were much more prevalent in 1929. Also, the photo was probably taken in the colder half of the year, what with everyone wearing overcoats.

    While I agree that a well chosen hat and overcoat looks great, most people just don't do hats anymore.

    On the subject of ladieswear, there are some women who look better in skirts, some who look better in trousers, and some who can wear either. The problem here is that most women (like most men) do not know how to dress well, and that concepts of feminism take precedence over actually looking good in some peoples imagination.
     
  11. Anthony Jordan

    Anthony Jordan Well-Known Member

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    It's an attractive picture for the sartorial world it suggests; I do regret the decline of the hat.
     
  12. GBR

    GBR Well-Known Member

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    You would struggle to enforce a 'no trousers' rule for women in the UK. Likely to be illegal.
     
  13. msulinski

    msulinski Well-Known Member

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    Quote:I suspect you would have difficulty in the US as well. It is easier to get away with in small companies where there is no HR department to complain to. In these situations, people very often just go with the flow so that they don't get fired.
     
  14. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Well-Known Member

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    I smell bullshxt with a hint of trolling...nice narrative though.
     
  15. comrade

    comrade Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. But the range of overcoats are the now classical style swooned over in numerous menswear blogs, including
    Style Forum. No thinsulaite, down or crappy raincoats with zip-in lining in view. They didn't exist yet .
    Most of those coats are in classical styles that are not routinely available at non-bespoke prices except from a few retailers-
    O'Connells come to mind:

    http://www.oconnellsclothing.com/home.php?cat=263
     
  16. David Copeland

    David Copeland Well-Known Member

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    Then call him directly.

    Here is his name: Donald Trump

    If you want his phone, private message me.
     
  17. David Copeland

    David Copeland Well-Known Member

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    Originally from Newport Beach - Now living in West
    Untrue, unless on religious grounds. It's all in the company policy manual and based on both UK law and European Law:

    "An employer can have a dress code that requires female employees to wear a skirt, but it should apply such a code sensitively and consider exemptions in some cases.

    The position under current case law (see Smith v Safeway plc [1996] IRLR 456 CA) is that, provided that the employer applies a comparable or equivalent standard of smartness and conventionality across the sexes, the employer should not be held to have directly discriminated on the grounds of sex by enforcing different requirements for men and women, such as requiring women to wear skirts. There have been some cases where employers have been found to have discriminated against women for requiring the wearing of skirts where the employer has not had an even-handed dress code policy for both sexes. Modern standards of acceptable dress and conventionality may make it increasingly difficult for employers to apply such a rule without the risk of a successful discrimination claim.

    In addition, female employees of certain faiths who have a religious requirement to cover their legs may challenge an employer that applies a "skirts only" policy to female employees. Such a requirement may be held to be indirectly discriminatory on the grounds of religion or belief. It may be difficult for an employer to justify a requirement to wear a skirt where an alternative of wearing a smart trouser suit would be regarded as reasonable.

    It is also arguable that a requirement for women to wear skirts at work may contravene art.10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the right to freedom of expression), when taken together with art.14 (the anti-discrimination right). As yet there have been no cases brought on this basis.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  18. aravenel

    aravenel Well-Known Member

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    Is that supposed to... What? Be good? Impress us?
     
  19. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Donald Trump, you say? Now there's a compelling argument... [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
    2 people like this.
  20. Calder

    Calder Well-Known Member

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    Smith vs. Safeway was a case bought upon hairstyling in reference to a the business conventionality of a style. You are on very shaky ground if you try to apply that decision to bar women from wearing a smart, business conventional ladies trousersuit; the court would almost certainly hold that such an outfit met the culturally accepted standards of conventional business clothing for women.
     
    1 person likes this.

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