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How to wear a white shirt

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Well-Known Member

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    And each is welcome to his own preference. Hardly the same as a rule, as I addressed in my post.
     
  2. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  3. Ivar

    Ivar Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair point. Manton probably should have been clearer about that.
     
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    Which parts to you disagree with?
     
  5. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Well-Known Member

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    lol! This is both venomous and tactful. Well done.

    I agree with a lot of what you said, but I didn't read what the other guy wrote as a code. I just blew off the parts that I didn't like as one man's opinion. Maybe I haven't been here long enough to be infuriated, hahaha
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  6. MyOtherLife

    MyOtherLife Well-Known Member

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    Yuppie, raw facts will always outweigh opinion but on SF, some peoples opinions are better than most peoples facts, and at the very least, they provide an awful lot of fun to an otherwise boring forum. Perhaps it will enhance your enjoyment of the forum to, not so much lower, but broaden your expectations. When differences arise, think of it as professional wrestling :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  7. bertie

    bertie Well-Known Member

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    You mean like this:[​IMG]
     
  8. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Well-Known Member

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    I'll tick off the parts that I think people should evaluate as Manton's opinion, and not feel compelled to follow. For reference, I do think there are rules. I think brown shoes with a black suit is a failure, or even a black suit to a business meeting (ex Asia) is a failure.

    1) White is not a country shirt.// - Situational, you don't have to be pheasant hunting. But I get what he's going for here.

    2) White is almost never good with an odd jacket (etc).// - Completely disagree. Many odd jackets (solid or patterned) can look great with a white shirt. If the objective is to pursue maximum subtlety, a blue shirt might accomplish that goal, but higher contrast in various situations (day or night) will often look good.

    3) So does work with white? Certain very pale (I mean VERY pale, so pale it takes a second to recognize what they really are) golds and greens.// - What?

    4) Suits should be blue or gray. Tan with white is an "advanced" look that can be good but let's leave that aside for now. Blue or gray. Dark suit, white shirt and dark tie is a great formal evening look. But if you are not going out, make the tie lighter than the suit. With a light suit and white shirt, wear a dark tie. Don’t wear a light suit, white shirt and light tie, or at least, be careful.// - What?

    5) White shirts nearly always demand black shoes.// - Disagree.

    Don't mean to start a war or anything, but I like the idea of exerting some influence opposite the things that I deem as SF group think. The variety of things that are quite nice and acceptable is much bigger than the set things that gets appreciated here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    These are pretty much all things I have followed even before Manton writing this. It just makes sense to me personally.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. JapanAlex01

    JapanAlex01 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, some of these points are BS, IMO. White shirt merits black shoes? What... Planet...? My personal opinion is, that black shoes only work with a grey suit. That is not a rule but my opinion. Half of Manton's 'rules' are just opinions. Nothing wrong with that--just don't call them rules. Blue is better with odd jackets, IMO, but white is best with a navy SC paired with grey trousers--almost always.
     
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  11. cptjeff

    cptjeff Well-Known Member

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    It may make sense to you, but I've never followed any one of those as even close to a guideline, much less a proscriptive rule. They don't even come close to making sense to me, they just come off as a bunch of crap that somebody came up with to justify subjective preference.

    White is a neutral ground that creates a sharp contrast. It shows dirt, so I wouldn't wear it hunting. Other than that, the country stuff is crap. You're not wearing tweed on a farm, why would you insist that every time you wear tweed, you act like you're on a farm? Do you carry a pitchfork to the office too? Why do you insist on strict adherence to old British rules, most of which were never actually all that strict, that have no relevance to the modern world? Why would you want to make new derivative rules based on the old irrelevant ones?

    I wear white shirts. I wear white shirts in textured fabrics. I wear white shirts in informal settings. I wear them with brown shoes, I wear them with black shoes. I wear them with button down collars, I wear them with spread collars. I wear them with tweed, I wear them with navy suits. I wear other shirts too, but a white shirt is never wrong. Certainly it's not subject to these arbitrary choices posed as rules.
     
    4 people like this.
  12. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I hadn't even thought about reading this thread until I saw a response to Yuppie's comment on the main page (last post). On styleforum, the drama that comes from the "rules" is usually of higher quality than the "rules" themselves. That may be the case here. I couldn't care less about these particular "rules." A little common sense and two working eyeballs should suffice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  13. JapanAlex01

    JapanAlex01 Well-Known Member

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    There a clear times when a blue shirt is better--eg: With a beige suit as it looks less washed out. But, it's not rocket science.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  14. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, when I see white shirt, I tend to think "formal." I think that's where the not in the country / not good with odd jackets comes in. White OCBD shirts are a different animal from white spread collar shirts and I don't think the rules // "rules" described in the OP are meant to apply in the same manner there. I believe Manton has elsewhere (perhaps in this thread, perhaps not) said that a white shirt is fine with a blazer and grey trousers.

    I don't understand Manton's reasoning behind the specific points you quoted on shoes // ties. Not sure what you're disagreeing with on Point 4 (all of it, just a part?).
     
  15. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Show me an outfit with a white shirt and brown shoes that wouldn't be better with either black shoes or a non-white shirt.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Well-Known Member

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    When you have to put that many conditionals into a piece of advice, it becomes pretty useless. Occam's razor etc.
     
  17. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Well-Known Member

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    First of all, you are missing the point, with "better." If in your opinion, blue shirts would look better than white in a certain set of situations, then have at it. That does nothing to refute my point that a white shirt would not be unsuitable in the same situations. That's just an expression of your tastes.

    Secondly, the permutations are endless (but it only takes one to bust a rule).

    I don't know if you are predicating all of your situations on fobbish 1920's England in full suits, but I definitely am not. One that comes to mind:

    Miami. Casually worn nice light white cotton shirt, light blue linen pants. Looks awesome with chestnut EG Kingsways and chestnut belt, would look terrible with black shoes/belt.

    Conversely, would look terrible with blue shirt (you're already wearing blue pants). Does the rule now become no blue pants with an odd jacket, since the shirt has to be blue? Sillyness.

    But that's all really an aside. Infinity outfits can look great with a white shirt and brown/burgundy/rioja/chestnut/you-name-it shoes, regardless of whether it's what you or some other people would choose.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
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  18. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Once you've lost the jacket, you're pretty much outside of the MC discussion anyway.
     
  19. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Also, the rule is gray pants with odd jackets. Get it straight.
     
  20. RogerC

    RogerC Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. There's a difference between classic summer menswear and street.
     

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