Horizontal buttons

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Esquire -

It was interesting that they didn't mention the need for a horizontal buttonhole on the gauntlet of a shirt.

That is because they know your hips won't fit in the sleeve. But seriously, guys and gals, the above thread reminds me of Mortimer Levitt's confidential 100 page manual for Custom Shop salespersons. If memory serves, it contained four pages of simple reasons you could tell customers which would explain why their sleeves were too short ... and why too short was correct. The following three pages offered simple explanations for customers as to why their sleeves were too long ... and why too long was correct. The bottom shirt button does have an important purpose. If properly placed, it will assist your shirt in remaining tucked when you raise your arms. That isn't to say any of the carefully thought out 'designer's talking points' above are untruthful. But they don't have to achieve untruthfulness to be hype. Except Faustian whose personal argument has merit.

buttonholes provide resistance to unbuttoning in the direction of the ****. on long tailed shirts, i have had the same problem with the BOTTOM button, where the two front halves of the shirt split from each other at the crotch. at this point on the shirt placket there is more horizontal stress placed on the button than any of the others (aside from the collar), so much so that i have had this bottom button come undone after, say, sitting down or taking a long stride. the horizontal buttonhole resists this problem more effectively than a vertical one. i know this from experience.

The rub here is that you are incorrectly solving a fitting defect by overcoming it with force. In all probability, the rear waist of your shirt is an inch or so too small. This is creating a strain under the circumstances you cite. The correct solution would be to add fabric where necessary. edited for stupid spelling

 

[Manton]

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[Alexander Kabbaz]

Aw, c'mon. Mortimer sold the company two years ago and the buyer managed to put it out of business in 6 months. That's not outrageous - just funny. Believe me, every retailer has something under their counter they don't want you to see. Except me, of course.

 

[Manton]

...

 

[banksmiranda]

http://www.startupjournal.com/ideas/...607-stout.html http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...v75/ai_5079202 As usual Spencer Hays/Individualized made an attempt to buy. So the latest incarnation(refer to top article) of The Custom Shop has failed as well?

 

[banksmiranda]

Good point, Alex. It makes sense that little differences like a horizintal bottom buttonhole on the center front would make more of a difference on RTW shirts meant to fit the general population than on any true custom shirt.

 

[banksmiranda]

Is the Custom Shop's NJ factory still operating?

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Now here's an incestuous story. That got your attention, no? We'll call it Round and Round We Go Waaaay back in the late 1930s, this guy named Mortimer Levitt began to market custom shirts. He was really good at it. Within a short while, he had orders for more than 3,000 shirts ... and a workroom capable of making 60 shirts a week. In came an expatriate German fellow named Harold Denhof. One of the best technical guys who ever graced the industry, Harold became Mortimer's virtual partner. He took over the workroom end, designed an assembly line process, and had the place absolutely humming. Any quantity Mortimer managed to sell, Harold managed to make. So ... a couple of decades pass and Mortimer begins to realize that his shirts are rising in price beyond the capability of the average middle manager. "So", he sez to Harold, "what changes can you make to lower our costs?" "Well", sez Harold, "I've done all of those already, Mortimer. Anything else I change will impact our quality." And Mortimer replies, "Did I say anything about quality? I thought I wuz talking about cost." Now Harold, not that he was into 170's or 200's 2x2, did have his standards. Walked out the door, he did. Founded his own company, the Denhof Shirt company. Within a couple of years, Harold had more than a thousand stores as customers and was generally regarded as the best M-T-M for stores anywhere. He also had his own retail clients (including Donald Trump - for those who wonder what he pays for his clothes). So, a couple of decades pass merrily along. One day, one of Harold's cutters sez, "Hey, Harold, I want more money or I'm outta here." "I can't give you more money", replies Harold. "Not without lowering our quality to cut costs." "Did I say anything about quality? I thought I said I want more money" replies the cutter. Now Harold, not that he was into 170's or 200's 2x2, did have his standards. And so the Cutter walked out the door, he did - and took a large part of Harold's staff with him. Founded his own company, the Individualized Shirt Company. Within a couple of years, Individualized had more than a thousand stores as customers and was generally regarded as the best M-T-M for stores. Where does it stand today? Depends on which side of the carousel you're standing on. Round and Round We Go edited cuz there ain't no spell check here.

 

[faustian bargain]

....
Quote:

buttonholes provide resistance to unbuttoning in the direction of the ****. on long tailed shirts, i have had the same problem with the BOTTOM button, where the two front halves of the shirt split from each other at the crotch. at this point on the shirt placket there is more horizontal stress placed on the button than any of the others (aside from the collar), so much so that i have had this bottom button come undone after, say, sitting down or taking a long stride. the horizontal buttonhole resists this problem more effectively than a vertical one. i know this from experience.
The rub here is that you are incorrectly solving a fitting defect by overcoming it with force. In all probability, the rear waist of your shirt is an inch or so too small. This is creating a strain under the circumstances you cite. The correct solution would be to add fabric where necessary. edited for stupid spelling
actually, the rub here is that ****** is too big, but thank you for being kind.

 

[banksmiranda]

Maybe you could shed a little light on this, Alex, and verify or correct as necessary what I am writing: The Individualized Apparel Group owns Skip Gambert. http://www.gambert.com L. Gambert is a separate company owned by other members of the Gambert family. http://www.gambertshirts.com Harold Denhof left Mortimer Levitt's first factory to start Denhof Shirts in Connecticut. Â Denhof's cutter left Denhof shirts to return to New Jersey and open a facility of his own. Â At some point Individualized Apparel acquired this facility, which produces shirts under the yApre label and shirts for the Individualized MTM program available through various retailers. Â At some point you acquired Denhof Shirts but closed it after tiring of not being able to do the hands-on parts of shirtmaking, and in addition Alexander Julian declared bankruptcy and cost you quite a bit of money. Â (This is so roundabout it's making my head spin - sorry Alex.) Â What happened to the original factory opened by Morrimer Levitt? Â Is the Denhof facility being used for anything? http://www.individualizedshirts.com Gitman Bros., also part of Individualized Apparel, occupies what used to be the Ashland Shirt & Pyjama facility in PA and makes Burberry shirts for the US market in addition to RTW dress shirts for Saks, Paul Stuart and Barneys. http://www.gitmanco.com

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Banks- This is, unless I am mistaken, a forum on clothing & style matters for gentlemen - and the occasional beautiful woman. It seems as if you're producing a shirt industry family tree which probably goes way outside the interests of most members. Couple o' quick comments lest unfounded rumors begin: 1] Last time I saw Skip he still owned himself. Shirtmaven may be more up-to-date and can confirm or deny. Various of his relatives own the other two Gambert shirt operations. 2] Those who left Denhof are Individualized. They were not acquired by Individualized. They'll deny it because, at the time, many of the Denhof stores were - shall we say - enticed to leave Harold. 3] Everything else you said about Denhof is incorrect except that I did own it for a time. Getting screwed by Alexander Julian was educational, not instrumental. The primary reason I closed it was that I couldn't stomach making mass produced shirts, no matter how good quality they may have been. But once again, I believe all this is a bit boring for a style forum. Lets get back to the fun of incorrectly positioned buttonholes. Honest to God, this is a true story:Speaking of buttonholes, I recently had a client complain that that darn low last button I put on my shirts caused a problem at the urinal. He couldn't find it. No, not the button, stupid.

 

[banksmiranda]

Sorry Alex - I suppose the shirtmaker family tree is of little interest to most members. It definitely gets convoluted and a little confusing. Your client's complaint about the last button - hilarious.

 

[Manton]

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[j]

I find it kind of interesting as well, actually.

 

[Concordia]

Sorry Alex - I suppose the shirtmaker family tree is of little interest to most members.

Yes, it appears that members are much more interested in button placement.