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Gun Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tiecollector, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. anginaprinzmetal

    anginaprinzmetal Well-Known Member

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    at the end of the day, that's the reason I bought mine (I have 4 now...:embar:)... well and in case of a zombie apocalypse :happy:

    just get the one you like and have fun... :nodding:
     
  2. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    Probably a good choice. Nothing wrong with wanting an AR for fun.
     
  3. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    Hickok45 goes against the conventional wisdom recently expressed here. At about 12 minutes he even says the AR will over penetrate less than the 12 gauge.


    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  4. brokencycle

    brokencycle Well-Known Member

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    Well, he's got a bit of a strawman against the shotgun. First, most people who recommend shotguns recommend somewhere between #1 and #4 shot not #00. For the penetration reasons and spread #4 shot, won't be a huge spread, but certainly bigger than baseball size from about 10 yards. Also, they tend to recommend pumps or semi-autos for the reloading reasons. Furthermore, this is the reason some people recommend a 20GA, a lot less recoil and it will do comparable damage.
     
  5. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    I'll leave the experts here to argue with this guy who is also supposedly an expert. Just found it interesting my choice for home defense is apparently not as outlandish as the last two pages would seem to indicate.
     
  6. Hayward

    Hayward Well-Known Member

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    5.56mm M855 from a bbl with 1/9 or 1/7 twist will go through a whole house. From 1/12 it will probably still do so, but with severe deviation from POA.
    5.56mm M193 will penetrate less, light comm'l HPs MAY lose lethal velocity after going through one or more walls.

    Virtually all defensive pistol ammo will still have lethal velocity after going thru a couple wallboards. Even Glasers. If you believe Brassfetcher, Federal Guard Dog (downloaded EFMJ) will actually lose more velocity after going thru wallboard than Glasers.

    00 Buck will also penetrate wallboard. Most folks worried about penetration recommend birdshot, which is suboptimal for incapacitation.

    Don't worry about overpenetration. Worry about being sure of your target and hitting it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  7. Mauro

    Mauro Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is making valid points. Pionaire , I suggest taking a tactical or home defense class. They 're fun and you will learn a lot. Going to the range isn't going to cut it. You might find out that a shotgun is better suited for you or you might find the AR is better.
    I would safely argue that the majority of the guys on this thread are seasoned shooters , former, or active military/ law enforcement . They know their way around a firearm and are comfortable in their ability to handle themselves properly in a low light / no light situation and dealing with a moving target which is a potential threat.
    I hate to quote G.I. joe but knowing is half the battle. I personally think you should have a semi automatic rifle , shotgun, and pistol. Each serve a different purpose. All 3 have their advantages and disadvantages but you should be comfortable knowing what will work best for you at any given time.

    Gun guys love to talk about guns and argue no matter what. I bet we could start a thread about D.I. Vs. short gas pistons and the thread would live a healthy life just because of people arguing which ones better. You have to make the best choices for you and you alone because when the shit goes down you are all you have. You dig?
     
  8. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
  9. Crane's

    Crane's Well-Known Member

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    I can throw out a 100 handgun loads that will go through a house. The real point of the argument boils down to this. You select ammo based on a set of criteria. If over penetration is your prime concern then you get ammo that is designed to mitigate that. If penetration and the ability to defeat barriers is your prime concern then you get ammo that performs that duty. Ammo selection is as important, if not more so, than what gun you use. Take that with a grain of salt too because you can pick the wrong gun for the job as well.

    Piob, an AR15 is a formidable personal protection firearm suited for a wide range of applications. In your specific case I would recommend a hollowpoint in the 50gr weight range. Over penetration becomes less of an issue and it'll stop anyone in their tracks pretty much instantly with a well placed shot.

    Now there's something else that hasn't been touched on. How many of you have fired a high intensity rifle round in a building without hearing protection? How about a high intensity magnum handgun?
     
  10. anginaprinzmetal

    anginaprinzmetal Well-Known Member

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    ^ was reading about this the other day... somebody recommended ear protection together with your home defense gun. This seems somewhat sketchy to me, I'd want to be able to hear what's going on, my family, etc. Having said that I can only imagine shooting at 12 gauge in a confined space. The shock and concussion must be terrible. I guess the other option is to shoot suppressed, which pretty much leaves the shotgun out of the equation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  11. Mauro

    Mauro Well-Known Member

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    I have ear protection that muffles the gun and at the same time amplifies people's voices. It's also blue tooth enable. Hearing protection has come a long way.
     
  12. anginaprinzmetal

    anginaprinzmetal Well-Known Member

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  13. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    Just got back from a very enjoyable few hours at the range. Now, keep in mind I have shot long guns exactly three times in the last 25 years or so. I shared up thread that about a month ago I was out in the mountains with friends and shot his Ruger 10/22 and had such a blast (pun intended) I went and got one a few weeks ago. So this is my third range trip with my 10/22, second with the $37 Simons scope (Jan suggested Simons). I have never zeroed a scope in my life and basically watched a bunch of youtubes from that former Ranger sniper team leader and sniper instructor, Ryan Cleckner, to learn how to do it.

    Now that you have the full blown back story of my long gun amateurishness....

    This was at 100 yards and was my second target sheet after getting it grossly in. I went clockwise from lower left, meaning lower right was the last group, then the middle. Be kind.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Well-Known Member

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    Very nice, piob. Certainly more accurate than I am.

    That being said, why are you shooting guns and not at work?!
     
  15. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    'Cause I've been working my ass off and decided to play hookey for the day. :)

    Thanks on the kudos. Can't wait to see if I can improve my groupings with better breathe and trigger control and think I should still dial the scope down a half MOA or so.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Crane's

    Crane's Well-Known Member

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    Piob, was that offhand or bench rested?

    A 12 gauge shotgun is a low intensity round. You would be way better off firing a shotgun in the confines of a building than any center fire rifle and a lot of common defensive handgun calibers. You can easily test this by firing a shotgun, rifle and a handgun at the range without hearing protection. (Yeah I know it's unwise to do this) I hunt with all three types of guns I mentioned and short of a 22LR rifle the shotgun is much more tolerable on the ears. Oh and muzzle breaks tends to make them much louder on you too.

    Worrying about ear protection during a home invasion is generally ill advised. This is a circumstance where the keep it simple rule applies. The less you have to worry about the better off you are. You'll have a hard enough time just remembering to take the safety off.
     
  17. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly the reason why I took issue with your comment. You made the statement that the "average" 5.56 doesn't penetrate as much as .40 without giving this poor bastard the information that SP and HP .223 rounds were the subject of that test. In fact, the "average" 5.56 was not the subject of any test that has given results like that. For all you know he, or someone else reading this, goes out and buys a box of FMJ 5.56 M855 to defend his home with and ends up punching holes in the neighbor's house because he thought they wouldn't penetrate as far. You can't give dudes partial information like that when it comes to these kinds of things.
     
  18. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    There are half a dozen brands that make so called electronic hearing protection. I used Peltors overseas, and continue to use them here at home. Great set of ears.
     
  19. Piobaire

    Piobaire Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how to answer. I am right handed but my left eye is by far the stronger eye. I use my left hand to pull the trigger, my right to rest the barrel in and I put the stock butt into my left shoulder.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  20. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    He means, did you support the rifle on something when you shot it, or did you simply hold it without anything supporting it.
     

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