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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Cleav

    Cleav Well-Known Member

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    No shine Doodals
     
  2. AJL

    AJL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for feedback. I agree the inglese is more flattering, definitely fits the shoulders better and is a bit trimmer. A few concerns: the neck is rather large on the Inglese, though no one commented on that, and in fact it's not that apparent, particularly with a tie. Am aware of the "2 fingers 'rule'" and also that one should not rely on a tie to cinch up a loose collar. Meh...I see what appears to be some more relaxed collars in waywrn and it doesn't appear to have negative impact, at least not for me. The collar on Mazz is nearly ideal (note, the neck measurements for Mazz as listed on NMWA are inaccurate: the 16 is actually 16.7", not 16.4" and the 15.75 is approx 16.3" not 16". I mentioned this to Kyle).

    The same characteristics that make the Inglese more flattering also make it somewhat more restrictive, as HC suggests (I also hear you re. higher rise trows). Snug in the shoulders and chest, not too bad in waist. I don't spend all day at a desk, so there's that, and I also don't plan to wear this rowing which could be somewhat problematic.

    Then there's conventional washing, which might snug up the collar a bit, but also perhaps the chest, shoulders and waist? Since I have my shirts professionally hand washed--cold water, drip dry--the latter 3 would obstensibly not be an issue, but the collar would remain in a "relaxed" state. Oh, and to respond to mention of Barba, Finamore, Borelli et al, these will not work as the neck is too tight. As I've gotten olden my neck has thickened a bit, as well in a few other areas (which also suggests the super slim fits are not for me). Cruel Nature. This is what drew me to Mazz and Inglese to begin with, a collar that would not strangle me or force me to move top button over, causing other issues.

    Not looking for perfection, just a well made RTW shirt that looks decent while also allowing a reasonable degree of comfort and mobility. Btw, the Inglese's are the nutz, as far as construction and finish goes, as others have pointed out.
     
  3. Rudals

    Rudals Well-Known Member

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    Ugh...can we venture on a quest to find me an awesome suit?!
     
  4. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    ^ If the neck is too big when buttoned, return it.

    You shouldn't own a $200+ shirt that doesn't fit right.

    Move on and find a RTW brand that fits better than Mazz or Inglese
     
  5. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    Rudals, I haven't read all of the thread, but why not try some suitsupply suits? If you happen to make a mistake, it'll be a much less costly one, and they have free shipping and free returns.
     
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  6. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    Rudals, a dark grey suit will certainly diversify your wardrobe beyond your current selection of various shades of blue. So will a medium grey suit. The real question is which color you like best. Medium grey is probably better with darker ties but otherwise I think any shade of medium to dark grey would be a great addition.

    That particular suit as others have said is a bit too shiny. Being distracted by brands is not good but neither is being distracted by a suit that advertises some sort of high "Super" number. A lot of the nice but shiny suits I see are either mohair wool blends or have a high "Super" number. Just find a basic grey and non-shiny suit.
     
    3 people like this.
  7. AJL

    AJL Well-Known Member

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    ^My point is, what truly constitutes too big in a collar? Beyond the cliche "looks like you borrowed your older brother's shirt" bit. Did you notice this in pics I posted? Granted you are looking at a mediocre photo, not viewing in person. As I say, with a tie, I don't believe it's noticeable (and not sure you would spot it in person w/o tie, without really studying it). And I don't notice the collar being deformed in any way once tie is tightened. Which is not to say someone with a very keen eye in these matters might not detect something, I just don't see it and I'm a fairly detail oriented guy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  8. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    It's very difficult to tell if the collar fits in those pics.

    The objective way to tell is to measure your neck all the way around with a tape measure. (Widest part, usually at the Adams apple)

    Then measure the shirt collar laid flat. Measure from the center of the button stitching to the center of the button hole.

    On an unwashed shirt, the difference between your neck circumference and the shirt collar circumference should be 0.75 inches. It will probably shrink to about 0.5 inches when washed, which is perfect in my experience. So you want to end up with about 0.5 inches of room.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  9. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    well, you need to find your way out of the same ole same ole cookie cutter department stores. while its true that NM carries many of the SF darling brands, they do not cater to the SF darling look.

    their suits will either likely be big and boxy cut for the rotund bidness man out there, or short, slim and narrow lapeled for the new up and coming #menswear 20-30 something that just started making bank and wants to look fly at the club. none of that really falls within the bounds of what we tardos get amped up for.

    you need to find a flattering cut, quality material and craftsmanship, lapels of a normal size and cuffs that are neither 7 inches nor 10. you need to find that, and i shudder to say this, "classic and timeless" yet current look. something italian or british but before the american pop cultureistas got their hands on it and abominated it.

    i would honestly give NMWA a shot with the formosas, you may really like it a lot. they are on mad sale, but no returns, so you might actually want to request to pay the regular price minus 10% SF discount to allow for returns (if they even allow that). you should check B&S and see if anything NWT (because i know thats your jam) fits the parameters (again, the no returns might be a non starter for you).

    try sartorial.com. prices not cheap, but better than what you are used to, and well cut SF type stuff. same for shopthefinest and ehaberdasher. try howard yount and kent wang if you like. basically, anywhere that is not your local DC upscale department store. if you go the online route, and you are using a no return place, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW YOUR MEASUREMENTS (and that might be past you right now). but, and i hate to say this too, fucking up is also part of the game for getting well fitting suits before you get your measurements right.

    also, and i cant believe im just thinking this now, you could try edmorels Panta custom route. takes a few months, but you get excellent product and pretty much assurance that the fit will be awesome.

    basically, once again, you need to bust out of your comfort zone. as they say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. if what you are finding at NM is not working, you need to expand your horizons.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    as to the other issue at hand, why and how is this any different than the ask a question a thread.

    what comes to mind for me is this. the ask a question thread is not meant to help anyone who is trying to actually build something. it is, as it is meant to be, a place for drive by questions. what size JLs do i need if i wear x size EGs? is this suit real? who is having a sale now? does such and such accept returns? is this a good shirt? does this fit right?

    its a wham bam thank you ma'am kind of jam.

    its for people who either have their style down, or at least think they do, and just want a simple answer to a simple question. its not meant to engender conversation, debate or discourse. its not meant to really teach anybody anything. i dont mean that derogatorily, its just what that thread is for, and it serves a very useful purpose. (in theory, i dont read the thread so i dont know whats up there now, but i got good quick help from people there when i joined).

    this thread, however, is more for people who are really searching and trying to understand more about the SF aesthetic, and want to improve their look through buying better items, and understanding which items to buy, and why or why not. if rudals had posted a million ties in the AAQ thread asking which is good, or had jr posted all those links to navy SCs/suits asking which was good, they would have been berated, and justly so because that is not the purpose of that thread.

    here, a poster who really wants to learn, and is willing to accept the SF ideals and forgo their preconceived notions and ideas for a bit (but not entirely forgo their free will, as rudals has fairly rejected certain items that he just did not like, but also concedes that he needs much guidance) can press and press and press with questions and links and pics and will be guided with answers as to why or why not said items are good or bad and why or why not they would work for their needs. rudals need was CBD, jungles was staple navy SC/suit, someone else may need help pairing SCs and trousers properly, who knows.

    it does not really matter the specific need, its more for people to get concerted advise about a specific need and they can keep going until they finally get it. and along the path, as people explain the reasons and whys and why nots of these items that one is having issue with, it brings about discussion, like we had with neat ties, so people can understand why people are recommending, or not recommending, certain things for the needs of the person in need. (fuck yeah run on sentence)

    thats how i see it anyways.

    also, i can tell rudals to eat a turd or stop being such a nancy here, and i dont think that flies in the AAQ thread.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered MTM? At the $200 price point, depending where you are, you should be able to get one made. You seem pretty aware of RTW shortcomings to marry yourself to something off the peg. I think you'd do fine to have one made. You can also go the online route, though it's best to get your measurements and fit down with a true tailor first.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. AJL

    AJL Well-Known Member

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    I've been trying to avoid this, but yes, I realize that in the end this may be the only way to get a shirt that fits reasonably well in all measurements. It seems like such a hassle: find a decent shirtmaker, determine measurements and desired details. Then make corrections when first shirt is off in various ways. I guess some people relish this process. I do not, at least conceptually.
     
  13. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    Just drop shipped from Italy!!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]






    I am done kopping ties forawhile. I have reached tie nirvana!!!! (Last tie will be the Hober grenadine that's on the way)









    Also kopped these for about $45 bucks each! My second favorite shirt brand after Barba.

    A royal oxford and an end-on-end

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
    4 people like this.
  14. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Well-Known Member

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    @AJL
    AT 200+ you might find a decent bespoke shirt maker in your area.

    There are some MTMs who travel (hemrajani/my tailor) who make good shirts. I suspect they will give you a better fit than what you are finding in OTR. Good selection of fabrics too.
     
  15. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff, jrd. LOL last tie. We both know there's no such thing.
     
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  16. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    No such thing as a last tie purchase. Only the next one.
     
  17. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Well-Known Member

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    Noodles, MonkeyFace is right, why don't you try SuitSupply? The make nice items and you are slim enough to fit in them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. jrd617

    jrd617 Well-Known Member

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    @Rudals
    @Claghorn

    Here's how I thick I like my grenadines. Should be able to tie a thin FIH. I thought pink panthers knots were too big.

    Accomplished this by asking for a 3.35 width tie with minimal lining

    Here's the Cappelli grossa's knot

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Thickness compared to a vintage Paul Stuart fina in navy

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Well-Known Member

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    @jrd

    Did you not tip the blue? How does
    It
    Compare to the black which is tipped? I'd be interested in a comparison with the hober when you get it.
     
  20. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Well-Known Member

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    Noodles, I don't think the Zegna cuts flatter you generally. I would recommend that you go to a good menswear shop with several brands (or a department store that isn't Neiman Marcus) and just try on a bunch of different suits. Don't worry about details like lapels, pockets, or even fabrics. Focus on the cut and fit. Figure out what looks good on you. Don't buy anything until you've settled those bedrock basics.

    Also, you would do well to heed Stitchy's advice about getting someone else to take the fit pics you intend to post for feedback. The salespeople will accommodate you.
     
    2 people like this.

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