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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Well-Known Member

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    If those are the only two options, and no middle ground or MTM is possible, I choose the trim fit. Bottom is too boot cut/flare Jean for me
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  2. Claghorn

    Claghorn Well-Known Member

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    Monkeyface is regularly vexed by those with bad posture and that only do cardio. He has the letters L-I-F-T M-O-R-E tattooed across his knuckles.

    But seriously SVB, there is a middle ground. Those pants are TOO full. That's the whole point of going MTM, right? To not have to be constrained by what various brands offer you?

    Eventually you'll need to trust the people who a) are able to view your pants with greater subjectivity and b) have spent a lot more time than you have thinking, talking, and arguing about trousers in CM.

    If with mtm you can't get something that drapes cleanly, so be it. The price of wearing such a loose (and I'm not a fan of tight trou, mind you) and dated cut just isn't worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
    2 people like this.
  3. StanleyVanBuren

    StanleyVanBuren Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying no middle ground is acceptable, I'm just saying that only saying "go MTM and have them do whatever" doesn't help get to any actual conclusion here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  4. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    It kinda does though. If you go to a good tailor he'll make sure the trousers fit well, not too tight, not too loose. It's a bigger up front cost, but it'll save you from having to do multiple iterations and whatnot, so in the end you break even or even save some money, with much less of a hassle.

    If you're set on using those trousers, you could use pins and pin them neatly to something a bit slimmer. Most bespoke tailors also do alterations. It'll be a bit pricier than your regular alterations tailor, but it could be a nice in between option. They can use their expert eye to see whether the trousers are salvageable and whether you should taper them and by how much. It's much easier to ascertain that in real life than from 2D pictures.

    I get you want to do everything by yourself, but sometimes just going to a tailor is so much easier. I had a pair of ill fitting trousers and couldn't quite figure what was wrong with them. So instead of wasting hours on them, I went to a Savile Row tailor and he told me exactly what was wrong and how to fix it in 1 minute. The alterations weren't cheap, about 60 quid if remember correctly, but it did solve the problem, and now I know what to look for.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
    3 people like this.
  5. Claghorn

    Claghorn Well-Known Member

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    Are there pictures from the sides and rear? From the front, it looks good around the upper thighs and should get tapered at just above the knee downwards. How wide is the current opening?
     
  6. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    Monkeyface and others here have touched on a few issues that affect not only SVB, but many. I'll start of by saying that the worse dresser on SF still dresses better than 95% of the population and if SVB wore either of those outfits in "real life" he would not get a single negative comment and in the big picture, there is nothing wrong with either outfit but if you are here on SF, then we are going to get into the things that matter to the 5%.

    Part of the issue here is what we believe a man should look/should be shaped like. The classic ideal is the V shape,or maybe )( , where we are broader up top, in the shoulders and chest and slimmer in the bottom. Most of us aren't that way (IDONTLIFTBRO) but we still strive to not be smaller up top than we are down below. When we are, or dress like we are, we get the dreaded pear shape, which can come from how we are physically or the clothes we wear. SVB seems to be rail thin from top to bottom, so when he wears a fitted, slim coat with loose pants, he is going to create that effect. So instead of having an outfit, it creates disparate pieces that draw our eye to the bottom portion.

    The Duke's picture is a great reflection of a balanced top and bottom. He was a man of small stature, he wore loose clothes to fill out his chest/shoulders etc and the pants fit in with that look. Were he to wear a tight, military cut jacket with those pants, he would look a fool. Now, you can get away with the opposite (slim pants/big coat) because it reflects that V shape. So when picking clothing, be it RTW or MTM/Custom, you need to realize your body type and be realistic with your expectations. No tailor in the world can ever make Winston Churchill look good in Tom Ford type clothing. Equally, if you are very skinny, slim clothes will make you look......very skinny and lanky.

    If I can offer some unsolicited advise, for someone of SVB's stature, I would suggest a higher shirt collar (to cover up more neck), a higher jacket collar, lower gorge, slightly wider lapels, a fuller sleeve to the elbow, fuller chest and slightly more open fronts to give him more "hips". Either pants would be fine, but the bottoms ones would need to be taken in a bit from the knee down.

    The goal is always a balanced outfit, not just in color and texture (and appropriateness) but in fit. Clothing can fit well, but still not "fit" well.
     
    17 people like this.
  7. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying I know the full history between you two, or what you have discussed thus far, but the only caveat I would say to this is that you have to have enough knowledge to express properly to your tailor what it is you want. IME simply showing up and saying "make me trousers" doesn't end up well.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Patrick R

    Patrick R Well-Known Member

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    If the only choices are trouser 1 or trouser 2, I'd throw some jeans on and end the discussion. If there is a middle ground to be had, taper trouser two below the knee.
     
  9. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    No history. It's kind of funny, because 90% of the guys getting bespoke don't know anything about clothes, and still end up walking out of the shop with very well fitting pants. Most tailors know what they're doing, and they'll give you the right cut for your body type. SF is way too distrustful of tailors. They know what they're doing, which is why they can charge several thousands for a suit.

    A lot of people like bespoke because they can just walk in the shop, let the tailor do his thing, even let him pick the fabric and details and whatnot, come back for a fitting (or more if it's their first time, but most people stick with their tailor and don't sample), and pick up a perfectly fitting and comfortable suit.

    I don't know if Edmorel is a tailor, but how he talks about it is exactly how most tailors think about it as well. They don't just have one cut that they apply to everybody, they adapt it to each persons body, in order to make that person look the best they can.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  10. StanleyVanBuren

    StanleyVanBuren Well-Known Member

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    We're back to the full suit then, but here are side and rear views. The trouser hem is currently 9.5 inches.

    [​IMG]


    I get the higher shirt collar advice a lot, and I understand why people think this looking at my photos. I already have a pretty high collar band on all my shirts, and if I go any higher it starts to leave a lot of space showing under/behind the tie. Also, check out the side and rear views above; it's a pretty tall collar and is already sticking up a fair amount above the jacket. Like you say, the jacket collar could be higher too, but there's still only so much that can be done.

    On the lower gorge and wider lapels I agree completely. Those are two of the reasons I grabbed this suit in the first place. I'm not opposed to open quarters either (I think my Epaulet tattersall sport coat might be the best example there). I guess I'm not sure what a fuller sleeve would do appearance-wise though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  11. GuP

    GuP Well-Known Member

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    Tell me about it...i did exactly this (walking in and not being particular) with MTM and the results were very disappointing
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's distrust, it's just being particular about what you want. That's what SF is all about.
    It has happened to me too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  13. Patrick R

    Patrick R Well-Known Member

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    I generally believe MTM to be the worst of all.

    I admit that there have been times I've imagined SVB going to Chris Despos and showing us how to properly fit his frame.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    9.5 inches. Pardon my language, but holy shit. I am 3 inches shorter than you, reasonably slim (39 jacket / 32 trouser, though you are definitely slimmer than me from what I can tell) and cannot imagine having a leg opening of greater than 8.5 inches. I find 8-8.25 to be ideal for me.
     
  15. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Well-Known Member

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    I agree that there is bad MTM, but I don't know that I'd say MTM is the worst of all. Most of the MTM issues I see occur with online MTM where someone is never fitted by an actual professional. If you are dealing with someone semi-competent, I think that you can have great success with MTM.
     
  16. EliodA

    EliodA Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the side view, I think it should be possible to taper those legs maybe 1.5" or so, perhaps even a bit more, without running into problems with your bowed legs. Why don't you take them to an alterations tailor and try it out? Tell them to leave enough fabric to let them out again if it doesn't work.

    Giving you more 'body' without the weight lifting bit [​IMG]
    (Which is a bad idea anyway, if you already have bowed legs)
     
  17. EliodA

    EliodA Well-Known Member

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    Online MTM, yes, I agree. But it is possible to get really good results with MTM, provided your body shape isn't too outlandish.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Patrick R

    Patrick R Well-Known Member

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    2 people like this.
  19. StanleyVanBuren

    StanleyVanBuren Well-Known Member

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    Ok, the default Epaulet leg opening in my size is 7.5". These are at 9.5". I think based on all the advice I will ask my alterations tailor to take them in below the knee down to an 8.5" leg opening which should hopefully split the difference without splitting the baby. And yeah I'll ask him to leave the fabric in so I can have him reverse the process if I hate it.

    I'll post results (at which point you can feel free to accuse me again of being too "attached" to this suit).
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Joenobody0

    Joenobody0 Well-Known Member

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    Style icon or not, I hate how those pants look on him. They might drape wonderfully but they make him look like a fat legged dwarf.
     

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