1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. sebastian mcfox

    sebastian mcfox Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Hey man you leave my crocs alone
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,323
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    I was disagreeing with the reason you gave. You said that they were associated with suits and suggested that it made them seem like "orphaned" trousers. I think that's off the mark due to the ubiquity of charcoal odd trousers in everyday life, and the tradition of wearing them with sport coats in American culture.

    I made no claim as to the advisability, or lack thereof, of wearing said trousers.
     
  3. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,413
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    http://www.styleforum.net/t/207164/navy-vs-charcoal-trousers/0_50

    There are many threads like it. Read them and decide for yourself. My general summary is that those who have debated this topic on SF the longest seem to agree that charcoal trousers don't look good with very much (if at all), so don't bother. Navy odd trousers are trickier. Some (e.g. Manton) argue both that they look bad with a sport coat and violate menswear traditions so carry with them cultural baggage that contributes to them looking bad. Others simply think that they look good in few contexts. I appreciate how long gdl has been a staunch defender of navy odd trousers.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  4. Bill Dlwgosh

    Bill Dlwgosh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    Not sure all of these are charcoal/dark grey pants but they all appear close enough:

    edit: Thank You for the link. I have read posts of Manton deriding Navy Trousers but not that particular thread.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  5. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,323
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    I think in order to wear charcoal trousers you have to go very Trad Ivy. Take inspiration from the looks of the 1950s and 1960s. Some will still not like them and that's fine, but that is no reason they shouldn't get any play. I have a pair of charcoal trousers and they don't get work very often. Maybe I should dust them off.
     
  6. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,413
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    I actually think you kind of made the point. It seems to me that, when the charcoal trouser debate pops up in a thread, many people end up saying that they have a pair but rarely or never wear them. It speaks to what appears to be a fairly common experience of finding them difficult to wear well. If many people who otherwise dress well find something so difficult to wear well that they almost never wear it, that seems to me like decent anecdotal evidence that the thing isn't a very useful piece of clothing or simply doesn't look very good.
     
  7. sebastian mcfox

    sebastian mcfox Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    @Bill Dlwgosh Not the worst offenders, but I personally think each fit would benefit from a different shade of trouser
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. PCK1

    PCK1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,064
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    NY
    Charcoal flannel odd trousers are classic. You see them in America often...but you also see some very fashionable Italians wearing them...i.e, Luciano Barbera

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    3 people like this.
  9. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,959
    Joined:
    May 16, 2013
    Location:
    CA
    Yep, you understand correctly. They do a good job of replicating. I will PM you.
     
  10. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,323
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    That's an interesting comment but I do think it falls prey to the SF phenomenon. That is to say, people who hang out on this forum necessarily tend to drift toward the center of SF style as they associate on here. The fact that people on SF rarely wear charcoal odd trousers probably has more to do with what is acceptable on SF rather than the inherent usefulness of them. Granted, I tend to agree with the SF wisdom but that doesn't mean that I am any more right in terms of what looks good. At a certain point in deconstructing this argument we must eventually face the fact that style is a perception that not all of us share in common. What looks "good" is only so objective.
     
  11. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,413
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    ^^^ Note that every example posted has the charcoal trousers paired with a brown or grey coat that's lighter than the trousers. Every debate on the topic identifies those as pretty much the only things that work with charcoal. I think it's illustrative that those are the examples that everyone pulled out.
     
  12. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,323
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
     
  13. Bill Dlwgosh

    Bill Dlwgosh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    For Sure, to go in the other direction you'd pretty much need a black SC with those Charcoal pants I guess. I'm still not sure I understand the apparent disdain for charcoal pants then if they can be paired successfully (if maybe not optimally) with light grey and tan SC's.

    And aren't Camel Hair SC's something else that get no love on SF? Luciano there looks pretty good I think.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  14. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,323
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    A lot of it has to do with Manton, I think. Manton is someone whose opinion I respect and I've read his book several times. There is a lot of great wisdom in it. He has influenced the direction of the CM opinion on this forum more than anyone else that I can think of. However, if you read his book and look past the alpha male snark inherent in some of his older posts, you have to understand that much of what he wrote is opinion. Well founded opinion, mind you.
     
  15. EliodA

    EliodA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,762
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    

    Well, it's hard to avoid the northern lights with charcoal trousers of course. Certain shades of green go well with them too.
    Yes, they are harder to pair than other shades of odd trousers, but that doesn't make it bad. I think it's nice to have some pieces in a wardrobe that are difficult. If everything you have is versatile, there's not much challenge in dressing and SFers like challenges don't we?
     
  16. PCK1

    PCK1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,064
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    NY
    I think one of my favorite charcoal flannel trouser combos is with this caramel and chocolate brown large houndstooth tweed jacket i have.

    I still think it looks good with a navy jacket too (but this is heretical in these parts).
     
  17. Bill Dlwgosh

    Bill Dlwgosh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    I find this comment kind of funny on page 1600+ of a thread that was started in the interest of helping Noodles pick out some ties. Not that I disagree with the point, of course.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. TM79

    TM79 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,806
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Location:
    Boston
    Charcoal just isn't as versatile as light or mid grey and so most people, especially those on specific budgets, are gonna choose versatile stuff first once they start developing an eye for what works.

    Maybe after that they'll branch out into charcoal, but then you need to already have jackets that work or have the money to get a SC that can work with the pants.

    Plenty of people aside from Manton have commented on there being better options to charcoal pants. Pretty sure it's impossible to credit a single person for something like this, although I'm sure he'd appreciate it if he happened to read it.
     
  19. Bill Dlwgosh

    Bill Dlwgosh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    Has there ever been a Charcoal Pant FC?
     
  20. TM79

    TM79 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,806
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Location:
    Boston
    I'm not sure, but I don't think it would be difficult enough and I think you'd end up with too many similar outfits.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by