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Fluid/dynamic/ongoing B. Nelson Experience

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gyasih, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Xiaogou

    Xiaogou Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,793
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    You know what they say:

    Refuse flush plates, your wife's shoes might get ruined.

    Oh, wait...

    What?


    The sad thing is when the CL glue-jobs wear through the sole, enjoy throwing them in the trash--no resoling those!
     
  2. JohnnyCrockett

    JohnnyCrockett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    859
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    OP needs to be a bit more decent here.

    A mistake may have been made.

    The problem, as many have stated, is that he began a smear campaign on B.Nelson rather than trying to work it out with Nick.

    I find it completely ridiculous that the OP has now essentially resorted to saying to Nick: "okay, I think you're a fine craftsman and I understand that mistakes happen. Now show us that you are decent by comping me for the shoes."

    Doing that publicly (I'm not quoting verbatim but can go back to page 2 or 3 or wherever it was that this was said) shows truly shallow character. "Hey, I memorialized bad press on your business on a forum of shoe enthusiasts but I'll forget about it and let bygones be bygones if you go out of your way to compensate me for the damage. By the way, everyone's watching, so if you don't compensate me, everyone will know and it will be shameful for you." This is how I'm reading things.

    I've been a loyal B.Nelson customer and have been accused of bias in previous similar debates so I'll not say too much more. I have had 4 or 5 pairs of shoes completely resoled by Nick and they have all been done at factory quality. Two pairs have had sunken toe plates and they are works of art.

    Sorry you have to deal with this guy, Nick.
     
  3. CYstyle

    CYstyle Well-Known Member

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    1,219
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    Jul 18, 2009
    Does it take 2 days to figure out whether the hole and the nail sticking out was or was not caused in the process of toe plates being put on? Someone with Nick's high reputation has to take swift action to rectify problems. The picture of the shoe with a hole and a nail sticking out does tell a story. And I am sorry to say this but just because someone is a valuable contributor to this forum does not mean anything. Reputation as an artisan / professional has to be earned every day.

    I'm still trying to figure this out. Where is this nail coming out of the shoe everyone is seeing. Is there a pic i'm not seeing?
     
  4. JohnnyCrockett

    JohnnyCrockett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    859
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    Jun 18, 2008
    Nick, I explained my experience thus far. I had no hole, B. Nelson put metal taps on and now I have a hole with a nail sticking through the leather. That is not a manufacturing defect and I asked you to pull it out then and there, which would have resolved everything. Taps or flush mounted plates, one should expect quality work. Explaining issues with other peoples shoes doesn't explain what happened to my shoes. In essence you said, "we worked on X, so I don't see how we could have damaged Y." I can provide the other pair of shoes that had polish on the back heels, although your worker was only putting on a front soles. I am definitely not condemning all of your work and repeatedly stated that mistakes happen and I would use your services again. I am not attempting to ruin your reputation. This is not the forum for that, nor do I have the time or inclination to make up stories about damaged shoes. As this gets resolved, which I hope it will. You will only get more people respecting your customer service.
    This is what I'm referring to.
     
  5. toslat

    toslat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    I am with the OP on this one. He has only described his experience and unless he has made false allegations, I dont see how he can be in the wrong.

    Its a simple case with two parts:
    1. were the said damages caused by B. Nelson
    2. If yes, what did they do to resolve it.

    For those saying that the OP's methodology was wrong and accusing him of a smear campaign, I doubt your position would be same if the OP was recounting a 'wonderful' experience. Would same defence have been offered if Nick wasnt a member of the forum?
     
  6. meister

    meister Well-Known Member

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    7,319
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    Feb 10, 2007
    I am with the OP on this one. He has only described his experience and unless he has made false allegations, I dont see how he can be in the wrong.

    Its a simple case with two parts:
    1. were the said damages caused by B. Nelson
    2. If yes, what did they do to resolve it.

    For those saying that the OP's methodology was wrong and accusing him of a smear campaign, I doubt your position would be same if the OP was recounting a 'wonderful' experience. Would same defence have been offered if Nick wasnt a member of the forum?


    +1 All of the above....don't shoot the messenger as they say...
     
  7. rsuhandy

    rsuhandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    404
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    Oct 20, 2010
    Even if the OP waited until this issue were resolved,
    B. Nelson's reputation would depend on how they
    chose to rectify the situation. I agree with the OP,
    as all he is doing is stating the facts and is in no way
    attacking Nick as a person, as he is just updating his situation
    with B. Nelson. There are other threads on the forum that
    have running updates with bad experiances from other companies.
    Why should B. Nelson be exempt from this sort of scrutiny.
    Could the OP have waited? Well yes. Is he wrong for not doing
    so? No, as long as he keeps things fair and impersonal.
     
  8. Yika

    Yika Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
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    Jul 2, 2009
    I'm still trying to figure this out. Where is this nail coming out of the shoe everyone is seeing. Is there a pic i'm not seeing?

    1st post. 1st three pictures.
     
  9. CYstyle

    CYstyle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    1st post. 1st three pictures.

    Still don't see the nail you guys are talking about. If the OP got metal taps, the nails would put with the flat side visible if you look at the shoe from the sole. if it pierced the toe box and would go straight through to pierce the toe box, you would see the shaft and point go up through and into the hole in the shoe.

    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/...8d93bf1b_b.jpg for reference.
     
  10. Yika

    Yika Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Still don't see the nail you guys are talking about. If the OP got metal taps, the nails would put with the flat side visible if you look at the shoe from the sole. if it pierced the toe box and would go straight through to pierce the toe box, you would see the shaft and point go up through and into the hole in the shoe.

    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/...8d93bf1b_b.jpg for reference.


    Are you trying to say the OP did not have metal taps installed?
     
  11. Fishball

    Fishball Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,731
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I really can't see any nail on the photo, I think I see something look like a "hole" but can't 100% sure. If the hole was made by installation of the metal toe plate, then I think it should have a hole also on the welt, otherwise I don't know how a hole can get to there, or at lease not by the installation process. If there is a hole on the welt, then it is very sure the hole was made by the cobbler.
     
  12. Yika

    Yika Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
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    Jul 2, 2009
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From the photos, i think the nail/hole is the silver speck peeking out from the side of the toebox.
     
  13. gyasih

    gyasih Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,346
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    OP needs to be a bit more decent here. A mistake may have been made. The problem, as many have stated, is that he began a smear campaign on B.Nelson rather than trying to work it out with Nick. I find it completely ridiculous that the OP has now essentially resorted to saying to Nick: "okay, I think you're a fine craftsman and I understand that mistakes happen. Now show us that you are decent by comping me for the shoes." Doing that publicly (I'm not quoting verbatim but can go back to page 2 or 3 or wherever it was that this was said) shows truly shallow character. "Hey, I memorialized bad press on your business on a forum of shoe enthusiasts but I'll forget about it and let bygones be bygones if you go out of your way to compensate me for the damage. By the way, everyone's watching, so if you don't compensate me, everyone will know and it will be shameful for you." This is how I'm reading things. I've been a loyal B.Nelson customer and have been accused of bias in previous similar debates so I'll not say too much more. I have had 4 or 5 pairs of shoes completely resoled by Nick and they have all been done at factory quality. Two pairs have had sunken toe plates and they are works of art. Sorry you have to deal with this guy, Nick.
    People amaze me. So what are people on this forum doing when they call a particular's label crap? Is that smearing? Why is this particular company different, because a member of this forum works for them? Can you read? If not, look at POST #16. I have never said comp me a pair of shoes. You mention that I am asking him to go out of his way, please explain? If I damage something of yours, you'll have reasonable expectation that I fix it. Or, am I wrong? Could I have chosen to deal with B. Nelson privately and then post, sure? But, I didn't and in my initial post I explained I would keep everyone informed. I never said B. Nelson is crap, I never said Nick is full of it, actually had a pleasant conversation with him. I didn't wake up and say let me start shit about Nick or B. Nelson. This is a place where people come for information about a lot of things. I posted MY experience so far and stated that it is not over and I am not condemning the place as a total waste of time and money. Plates, taps, filling the leather or doing something else, I want to know what happens if moisture gets in the hole and then you add varying temperatures.
     
  14. rossyl

    rossyl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    I have enjoyed the comments posted. Thanks to all. I'm also considering a policy whereby, when I see how a customer is and, what they wear and, advise against their request. Then, suggest the appropriate service. If the customer does not adhere to my advice, I'll refuse the job. This will be done on a case by case basis. I trust my intuition and the OP is well aware of what I advised him.

    For the record, regarding high-end Women's shoes. I was mentioned in O magazine Feb. 2011 edition. Forgot what page but here is the cover:
    http://downmagaz.com/women_magazine/...uary-2011.html
    "go to people"
    Been on Martha Stewart's radio program (invited) 7 times. Live on the air.
    many others. The latest is this months edition of:
    http://shopsmartmag.org/
    This, as all our publicity is always unsolicited. Rather, we are always sought out.

    Are we perfect? No. Fair and reasonable? Always.



    ...
    Come on Nick. We've both chalked this up to a mistake, but please don't sit here like, "I suggested flush plates, so it's your fault you have a nail hole in your shoe."
    ...


    I completely agree with the OP. If anything Nick's posts on this forum have so far been to the detriment of B.Nelson.

    Nick's comments have not come across as apologetic, they have not come across as factual, INSTEAD they seem to avoid answering the issue. This is not good business. What the hell has Martha Stewart got to do with this? So B.Nelson are recognised as good, surely that's because of ability and good customer service? What Nick has shown by his posts is most unfortunately far from that. From what the OP has written, B.Nelson has failed on this occassion.

    As for the OP posting here. As shown by many posts on this thread it takes a great deal of courage to post negatively about a company that is revered on a forum. However, it is most certainly the right thing to do. The OP went to B.Nelson on the basis of good reports on this forum, but he didn't get a quality service. Should that be reported - YES.

    Everyone constantly provides their negative experience with dry cleaners, tailors etc. Just because they aren't hugely recommended, everyone chimes in with further criticism. Yet, the poor OP mentions, in the most fair way, that he hasn't received quality service from a recommended company by the forum, and people tell him he should not have posted here? That smacks of double standards.

    B.Nelson should wake up and realise that holding your hands up when you make a mistake is a very important thing. Blaming it on the customer without any foundation makes you sound pathetic. Also, this new rule of rejecting customers sounds very "Soup Nazi" (see Seinfeld) i.e. a joke.

    All B.Nelson need to do is say sorry, say that of course a nail should not be poking out of the shoe, admit that you never informed the OP that a nail would be poking out of his shoe (honestly, do you think if you'd advised of this he'd of gone for non-flush taps?), and paint the red back on his wife's shoes. - It's hardly Harvard Business School, it's honesty and etiquette.
     
  15. Poshak Man

    Poshak Man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2006
    I completely agree with the OP. If anything Nick's posts on this forum have so far been to the detriment of B.Nelson.

    Nick's comments have not come across as apologetic, they have not come across as factual, INSTEAD they seem to avoid answering the issue. This is not good business. What the hell has Martha Stewart got to do with this? So B.Nelson are recognised as good, surely that's because of ability and good customer service? What Nick has shown by his posts is most unfortunately far from that. From what the OP have written B.Nelson has failed on this occassion.


    B.Nelson should wake up and realise that holding your hands up when you make a mistake is a very important thing. Blaming it on the customer without any foundation makes you sound pathetic. Also, this new rule of rejecting customers sounds very "Soup Nazi (see Seinfeld) i.e. a joke.

    All B.Nelson need to do is say sorry, say that of course a nail should not be poking out of the shoe, admit that you never informed the OP that a nail would be poking out of his shoe (honestly, do you think if you'd advised of this he'd of gone for non-flush taps?), and paint the red back on his wife's shoes. - It's hardly Harvard Business School, it's honesty and etiquette.


    This is not the first time if my memory serves me right Nick has responded in this manner to previous customers bringing up service issues on the forum. Rule # 1 in rectifying service issues, look at the outcome with an open mind, don't assume we can't make a mistake it is the customer who does not get it. Rule # 2 Do that right away. Rule # 3 If your error, address the situation to customer's satisfaction. What the customer was or was not advised does not mean anything if it did not include the advice that the process that the customer is asking for could result in a nail sticking out the toe of the shoe and make a hole.


    And once again being mentioned in Martha Stewart's show or being published in a trade or fashion magazine does not mean anything or for that matter offering free valuable advice on this forum. B Nelson has the reputation to be getting the media coverage. But I would hazard a guess that reputation was earned by doing a high quality job on the shoes brought in for repairs and where in the small number of cases mistakes are made they are addressed promptly to the customer's satisfaction.
     
  16. viator

    viator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    708
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    As for the OP posting here. As shown by many posts on this thread it takes a great deal of courage to post negatively about a company that is revered on a forum. However, it is most certainly the right thing to do. The OP went to B.Nelson on the basis of good reports on this forum, but he didn't get a quality service. Should that be reported - YES.

    Everyone constantly provides their negative experience with dry cleaners, tailors etc. Just because they aren't hugely recommended, everyone chimes in with further criticism. Yet, the poor OP mentions, in the most fair way, that he hasn't received quality service from a recommended company by the forum, and people tell him he should not have posted here? That smacks of double standards.

    I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that the workmanship on OP's shoes was poor and should be rectified. The issue, as I see it, is that OP immediately started a thread naming names, complaining, and relating his "terrible" experience. I really feel that before you go around badmouthing a peron or business and damage their reputation, the responsible thing to do is attempt to resolve the situation privately with the business or person in question. If you don't get a good resolution, by all means, post your experience. That is useful and important information. If there is a good resolution, but you feel that others should be warned about potential mishaps, then that's fine to post as well. What I don't like is posting half a story - not giving Nick a chance to make it right before lighting the fuse on a 5+ page thread.
     
  17. upnorth

    upnorth Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't see it this way. Posting and then updating the results is equally, if not more effective. I certainly see nothing wrong with doing that, in fact, if it works out positively, in most cases, the experience not only highlights how service orientated the company is, but also makes a good testimony. The only (potential) fault I can see is, if the company corrected the problem, went beyond their duties and the customer not only did not update or thank them but go on bitching about the initial fault.

    Remember, there are instances when people try to post nasty things about other companies, and based on their photos, the jury on Styleforum shot them down, in defence of the accused company because the poster was being too anal or the fault to minor to even be a problem. This is clearly not such a case.
     
  18. gyasih

    gyasih Well-Known Member

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    I think there have been some very well thought out responses to my thread and others that have been more emotional. In hindsight, I see where I could have posted my experience after everything was handled. With that said, I make no apologies for posting my experience as it is happening. I changed the title because it is not a terrible experience or complete experience until it is over. And then it may become my exceptional experience.

    I have not bad mouthed anyone. I have not attempted to damage anyone's reputation. I have not said you owe me new shoes. I stated what happened. If people cannot see that, then maybe they need to work on reading comprehension. I have both, unemotionally, and as fact-based as possible, attempted to describe my dealings thus far and respond to different posts.

    I left my shoes, believing that the store will do the right thing-whatever that is. See Post 16 for that response.

    In the end, I don't owe anyone on this forum anything, but I definitely don't want people saying B. Nelson is the worse. I had a rare mistake. I am not to blame for that, and neither is Nick. He isn't doing the work. With that said, anyone would expect a resolution to their satisfaction. Has that happened, no. But it's also not Friday.

    People are constantly lambasting me for bad-mouthing, attempting to ruin a reputation. To them I say, have you ever given a negative review of a product? If so, did you give the manufacturer an opportunity to correct it before you did so? If not, why not, you are ruining their reputations as well.
     
  19. onix

    onix Well-Known Member

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    So OP had two options:

    1. Posting his on-going experience, including initial bad results on SF (this is what OP chose)
    2. Working the whole thing out before posting his experience on SF

    What's the advantage/disadvantage to both parties?

    - If the company is good, neither option is bad for them. Option 1 is fine because the public can see how responsive/responsible the company is. Option 2 is of course also fine.
    - If the company is bad, option 1 will give them some pressure to do the right things, hence this is not in favor of the company. However, it is good for OP.

    In conclusion, option 1 is best for OP in all scenarios, hence he chose it. Option 1 is not always good for the company, hence they don't like it.
     
  20. viator

    viator Well-Known Member

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    In conclusion, option 1 is best for OP in all scenarios, hence he chose it. Option 1 is not always good for the company, hence they don't like it.
    I think this is true only if you assume the audience continues to follow the thread beyond the first post.
     

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