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Express your opinion regarding the longevity of the leather sole and welt

MyOtherLife

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Originally Posted by Quadcammer
...as we all know, the vast majority of people wouldn't know a leather sole from a fillet of sole...

lol8[1].gif
 

VelvetGreen

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Originally Posted by ThatGuy

I think I'll pay for my shoes to be resoled rather than cheapen a leather product with rubber.


Oh, come on.
 

miurasv

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Originally Posted by ThatGuy
This vs This
2ykgdqg.jpg
I think I'll pay for my shoes to be resoled rather than cheapen a leather product with rubber. On the longevity side of things, the only noticeable difference is that leather looks worse after a few wears than the rubber. However, once all scratched up, it pretty much looks the same. The top-tip only wears down if you aggressively push down through the toes when you walk/ kick something by accident. I seriously think some of you need to take lessons in walking
wink.gif

What's the piece of metal? at the tip of the shoe called?
 

Quadcammer

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thats the sunken toe plate that are b.nelsons speciality.
 

Quadcammer

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well I guess if you think about it, cheaper shoes almost always have rubber soles, so it would make the shoe appear cheaper, if you care about that sorta thing.
 

DWFII

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DWFII

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One of the things I do for my customers when they come in for final fitting and pick up...and something the average person can do to some extent at home when the shoe is new...is that I "set the creases."

The most basic part of this technique is simply having them put one leg forward as if taking a step. Then, while the shoe on the other foot is held firmly to the ground put that knee on the ground. Of course the heel will come up, but if the forefoot is held down it will flex the forepart of the shoe almost to the maximum it will ever need to flex. Repeat on the other foot.

Do this a half dozen times and it will accelerate the break-in process for the insole and more importantly the outsole, and possibly...probably...ameliorate the wear at the toe.

When I do this with customers, I also lay two pencils or dowels over top of the foot about a half inch or a little more apart and hold those pencils firmly in place as the shoe/foot is flexed and the knee brought to the ground. On a brand new shoe or boot, this will encourage the creases to form such that they run straight across the foot. Once broken in like that...and if the shoe actually fits properly...the shoe will flex and crease in that configuration forever. But using the pencils takes a helper.
 

miurasv

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What does get me thinking about the cost and quality of shoes is seeing Dainite soles on shoes that cost £80-£100 and then seeing the exact same Dainite soles on shoes that cost nearly £400 and above. Is the sole itself a non expensive/labour intense part of a shoe? Does a leather sole of say a Church's, EG or Crockett & Jones shoe cost the same to make as the Dainites that are found on much cheaper shoes? If the Dainite soles cost less, the price for the Dainite soled versions of the shoes should be less but they're not. Hmmm.
confused.gif
 

DWFII

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Originally Posted by miurasv
What does get me thinking about the cost and quality of shoes is seeing Dainite soles on shoes that cost £80-£100 and then seeing the exact same Dainite soles on shoes that cost nearly £400 and above. Is the sole itself a non expensive/labour intense part of a shoe? Does a leather sole of say a Church's, EG or Crockett & Jones shoe cost the same to make as the Dainites that are found on much cheaper shoes? If the Dainite soles cost less, the price for the Dainite soled versions of the shoes should be less but they're not. Hmmm.
confused.gif

It's marketing. It's brand name cachet. Blue sky. Period. When you look at the processes and the techniques and the materials that go into a top dollar RTW as compared to a significantly lower end RTW, there is nothing so special or difficult or rare that it justifies the wide discrepancy in price except "glamour" (in the old sense of the word). Top name shoes that sell for $800.00+ could easily sell for half that and for a more than reasonable profit.
 

miurasv

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Originally Posted by DWFII
It's marketing. It's brand name cachet. Blue sky. Period. When you look at the processes and the techniques and the materials that go into a top dollar RTW as compared to a significantly lower end RTW, there is nothing so special or difficult or rare that it justifies the wide discrepancy in price except "glamour" (in the old sense of the word). Top name shoes that sell for $800.00+ could easily sell for half that and for a more than reasonable profit.
So are you saying that the techniques and materials that go into making £100 Loakes are the same as £400 Church's or that there is a difference but that difference does not justify the price difference?
 

DWFII

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Originally Posted by miurasv
So are you saying that the techniques and materials that go into making £100 Loakes are the same as £400 Church's or that there is a difference but that difference does not justify the price difference?
When it comes to construction techniques in manufactured shoes, there is probably no significant difference worth talking about. As for materials, yes, the higher priced shoes will have better materials. For instance, I would expect the low end shoes to use leatherboard or fiberboard insoles, heel stacks, and stiffeners; I would expect that the higher end shoes would use leather insoles and leather heel stacks but synthetic stiffeners. But the diffence in the wholesale, bulk-buy price of raw materials, whether fiberboard or leather, is not enough to justify a four times or, as I was thinking, eight times, difference in retail price. And it should be noted that it is easy to cut back on the quality or the thickness of a leather insole, for example, and still call it "leather." Another way to look at it is that corrected grain leather is still leather...and sometimes even fundamentally good leather. Yes, there are differences between the $1200.00 shoe and the $200.00 shoe--stitching is finer and more precise; finish techniques and the "presentation" of the shoes are given more attention; leathers are cut (marginally) more for quality and less for quantity and from better grades of leather. But is that worth the difference? I suspect...and my experience buying leather and making shoes is...that it is not. So you're right back wondering why a Danite sole on one shoe doesn't significantly raise the price and the same sole on another doubles it.
 

miurasv

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Originally Posted by DWFII
When it comes to construction techniques in manufactured shoes, there is probably no significant difference worth talking about.

As for materials, yes, the higher priced shoes will have better materials. For instance, I would expect the low end shoes to use leatherboard or fiberboard insoles, heel stacks, and stiffeners; I would expect that the higher end shoes would use leather insoles and leather heel stacks but synthetic stiffeners. But the diffence in the wholesale, bulk-buy price of raw materials, whether fiberboard or leather, is not enough to justify a four times or, as I was thinking, eight times, difference in retail price.

And it should be noted that it is easy to cut back on the quality or the thickness of a leather insole, for example, and still call it "leather." Another way to look at it is that corrected grain leather is still leather...and sometimes even fundamentally good leather.

Yes, there are differences between the $1200.00 shoe and the $200.00 shoe--stitching is finer and more precise; finish techniques and the "presentation" of the shoes are given more attention; leathers are cut (marginally) more for quality and less for quantity and from better grades of leather. But is that worth the difference?

I suspect...and my experience buying leather and making shoes is...that it is not.

So you're right back wondering why a Danite sole on one shoe doesn't significantly raise the price and the same sole on another doubles it.


Thank you very much for your reply. So we are paying 4 times the price for shoes that are only minutely or very marginally better than the cheaper shoes. Diminishing returns gone crazy I guess but as we all know it's not just shoes or shoe manufacturers that are guilty of this. It's true in the hierarchy and manufacture of most luxury goods.
 

DWFII

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I might add that paying a premium for a designer or a certain stylishness is neither unusual nor a sin. If I were buying shoes for myself, I would rather pay the premium for a G&G than a lesser shoe. I would rather pay a premium for a medium rare rib-eye done by an experienced and well-respected chef than save money and eat at Wendy's.

It's the way it has always been...time out of mind.
 

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