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dressing up, when did it all go wrong?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by bowtielover, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. bowtielover

    bowtielover Well-Known Member

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    There used to be a time when men and boys of all ages presented themself's with confidence and dignity even in their wardrobes. I recollect to green acres with the famer in the suit. The majority of man was well dressed and those few that shy from the majority were looked down upon as lesser than the rest and treated diffrently as if they were common theifs. Now a days it seems as if things have changed for the worst, t-shirts and jeans are the majority. so many of the youth wear sweats and things with holes in them, clothes that look like they should have been in the tras ages ago and they are wearing them out in public. It seems the standards have changed, not many people these days seem to take pride in their personal apperance as they once did, and others who do are more acceptant than they should be. My sons are fairly dressy by nature and influence of their father. it pains me to hear of my youngest son being mocked for his style choices when it is those who mock who are in need of being mocked. So I was wondering if there are other out there that can relate to this or can shead some new light on the matter or simply have any opinion on the matter, is there?
     
  2. SoCal2NYC

    SoCal2NYC Well-Known Member

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    You have children?
    Do you dress them up like Oliver Twist?
     
  3. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Well-Known Member

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    Probably all went to the sh*tter in the free, liberal, do what you want 60's.

    Tell your kids to stick it out. Dressing decently has its advantages in society, discounting the ridicule one gets from the boorish sorts. In the long run it'll be alright.
     
  4. Ringo

    Ringo Well-Known Member

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    Could it also be that tastes have changed over time?

    I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have my kids dress like kids their age dress (with in reason, of course), than to dress like spoiled, pretentious ivy league dorks (or Oliver Twist) and get made fun of at school. Let kids be kids and enjoy their childhood and make friends. They will have the rest of their lives to turn it up a notch and dress like adults.
     
  5. kakemono

    kakemono Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have my kids dress like kids their age dress (with in reason, of course), than to dress like spoiled, pretentious ivy league dorks (or Oliver Twist) and get made fun of at school. Let kids be kids and enjoy their childhood and make friends. They will have the rest of their lives to turn it up a notch and dress like adults.
    Agreed. Plus, you can still dress your kid well and them fit in. Ask them. Talk to your kid. Don't just throw a suit on him and send him off to 1st grade. How old is he? I think this is two seperate conversations depending on whether he is 1st grade or upper classmen high school.
     
  6. Teacher

    Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I think you should get your vision checked again. Your current glasses seem to have an awfully rosey tint to them. And I must say as a father of three (and one who remembers what it was like to be a child) that dressing a child so he fits some outdated and, in part, fictitious standard at the expense of being mocked is going too far.
     
  7. Mustapha

    Mustapha Well-Known Member

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    Just my opinion but when I was a lad fashion 'labels' meant 'couture' which meant unaffordability. Everyone else wore Forsyth or Hathaway or department store branded shirts with pressed pants and shined shoes. Even the rich British chap in riding gear that brought his shirts into my grandfather's laundry wore Hathaway shirts.

    At some point, I'm not sure (or how), perhaps the early 1970s; the 'brand' became more important. I remember Levi's becoming 'cool'. It didn't matter that Wrangler were just as good and less expensive.

    Nowadays there is much foolishness. My sister who should know better at her age does not wear glasses. Shes wears 'Pradas'.
     
  8. Tarmac

    Tarmac Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking about this the other day, but there is absolute certainty that I HATED wearing a suit, or shirt and tie when I was any less that 15 years old. There was just nothing appealing about it.

    I was thinking, how come I enjoy putting on a sportcoat with a pocket square and carefully selecting the appropriate shoes, just for a 30 minute jaunt to the cafe? I dunno. All I know is that something changed. When I was a kid, I hated it.
     
  9. Brian278

    Brian278 Well-Known Member

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    Dressing up is a bad idea when it isn't appropriate in the same way being underdressed can be. I understand the reaction here against people showing up far too casual to important events, i.e. church, a funeral, a wedding, a job interview, etc., which is justified. But a lot of people should realize that the standards of formality have changed (some would say lowered) just as fashion does. Usually people don't mean any disrespect by how they're dressed, they just don't see it as a big deal (and it often isn't).

    Imposing an antiquated standard on someone with the idea of looking down on them or making them feel inferior can be just as bad as ignoring social convention from the other side. Standards of formality wax and wane, and ignoring that in the effort of preserving the notion of the farmer wearing a suit is a little ridiculous. If the youngest son is overdressed for social occasions, people are going to react negatively in the same way that you would if someone was under dressed by your standards. They may perceive arrogance or condescension in his attire or he may project what his father taught him, that people who are under dressed are being disrespectful in some way. I mean, your son is roughly in middle or high school I'd imagine? They're teenagers for God's sake, let them dress like teenagers. Most kids are always going to mock what's outside the norm, he should have figured this out by now, or you should have let him know what he was in for.

    There isn't necessarily a right or wrong side to this, it's just that some people would prefer more casual standards because they like that style of dress aesthetically and comfort-wise and some people still believe in the old standard of dressing up equaling respect for their fellow man and the events taking place. Personally, I like style of dress that's prevalent in Men's Clothing, but there a place for it and often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity. Trying to force a elevated, anachronistic level of formality on every setting is nonsensical in the same way not wearing a suit and tie to a job interview at a bank is.
     
  10. JayJay

    JayJay Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking about this the other day, but there is absolute certainty that I HATED wearing a suit, or shirt and tie when I was any less that 15 years old. There was just nothing appealing about it.

    I was thinking, how come I enjoy putting on a sportcoat with a pocket square and carefully selecting the appropriate shoes, just for a 30 minute jaunt to the cafe? I dunno. All I know is that something changed. When I was a kid, I hated it.

    I enjoyed dressing up in a suit and tie when I was a kid. The exception being a suit with short pants - yes, shorts - with matching bowtie and cap. I hated it and still remember the horror of being forced to wear it. I was only about 5 years old at the time. Otherwise, I've always looked forward to dressing up.
     
  11. underwearer

    underwearer Well-Known Member

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    those few that shy from the majority were looked down upon as lesser than the rest and treated diffrently as if they were common theifs...

    And that was a good thing?

    ...it pains me to hear of my youngest son being mocked for his style choices when it is those who mock who are in need of being mocked.

    Kind of hypocritical.
     
  12. gorgekko

    gorgekko Well-Known Member

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    I recollect to green acres with the famer in the suit. The majority of man was well dressed and those few that shy from the majority were looked down upon as lesser than the rest and treated diffrently as if they were common theifs.

    Ah gauzy nostalgia.

    Boy the way Glen Miller played
    Songs that made the hit parade.
    Guys like us we had it made,
    Those were the days.

    And you knew who you were then,
    Girls were girls and men were men,
    Mister we could use a man
    Like Herbert Hoover again.

    Didn't need no welfare state,
    Everybody pulled his weight.
    Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
    Those were the days.
     
  13. RJman

    RJman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,647
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Location:
    In the not too distant future
    Boy the way Glen Miller played
    Songs that made the hit parade.
    Guys like us we had it made,
    Those were the days.

    And you knew who you were then,
    Girls were girls and men were men,
    Mister we could use a man
    Like Herbert Hoover again.

    Didn't need no welfare state,
    Everybody pulled his weight.
    Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
    Those were the days.

    For no reason here's Apu...
     
  14. axlpendergast

    axlpendergast Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    what is wrong with jeans and t-shirt? or sweat pants that have a hole or three after years of owning them? you wouldn't drive a BMW to go off-roading and you wouldn't drive a KIA expecting the maitre'd to be wowed in an upscale resteraunt.

    as for people that really try to go for the homeless man look that's beyond me [​IMG]


    There used to be a time when men and boys of all ages presented themself's with confidence and dignity even in their wardrobes. I recollect to green acres with the famer in the suit. The majority of man was well dressed and those few that shy from the majority were looked down upon as lesser than the rest and treated diffrently as if they were common theifs. Now a days it seems as if things have changed for the worst, t-shirts and jeans are the majority. so many of the youth wear sweats and things with holes in them, clothes that look like they should have been in the tras ages ago and they are wearing them out in public. It seems the standards have changed, not many people these days seem to take pride in their personal apperance as they once did, and others who do are more acceptant than they should be. My sons are fairly dressy by nature and influence of their father. it pains me to hear of my youngest son being mocked for his style choices when it is those who mock who are in need of being mocked. So I was wondering if there are other out there that can relate to this or can shead some new light on the matter or simply have any opinion on the matter, is there?
     
  15. flylot74

    flylot74 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Imposing an antiquated standard

    It is only antiquated when people accept dress codes as such. I don't see dressing well as an antiquated standard. I see it as good grooming and taste.

    "often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity."

    Yes, when one is playing softball or baseball a t-shirt and baseball cap is certainly acceptable and functional. However, when a 30 or 40 something wears jeans, t-shirt, running shoes and a ball cap to a restaurant its "Hey! Beaver! You forgot your glove!" Kryse sake, grow up! Your not 12 anymore!

    Children should dress with play in mind unless they are attending a funeral or church or dining out. Adults should dress appropriately as well. "Ditch the cargo pants and flip-flops, Bozo, you're on a date with a lady who is dressed to the nines!"

    No, it is distressing to see such slovenly attire on so many people in the U.S. The richest country in the world and we dress like refugees from Rwanda. It's not about dress, it is about behavior. People have no respect anymore for others. They dress improperly and claim it comfortable. If a tie and shirt are not comfortable, guess what? They DON'T FIT!

    People's behavior have changed just a their dress. Loud, boorish, offensive self absorbed tools who talk too loud on their cells while dining. I could go on, but it will just give me a pain. There are no ladies and gentlemen anymore, just narcissistic low brows who behave badly and dress worse than lawn care workers.

    Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....
     
  16. zyg0te

    zyg0te Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
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    Sep 23, 2007
    what is wrong with jeans and t-shirt? or sweat pants that have a hole or three after years of owning them? you wouldn't drive a BMW to go off-roading and you wouldn't drive a KIA expecting the maitre'd to be wowed in an upscale resteraunt.

    as for people that really try to go for the homeless man look that's beyond me [​IMG]


    this man speaks the truth. [​IMG]
     
  17. gorgekko

    gorgekko Well-Known Member

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    People's behavior have changed just a their dress. Loud, boorish, offensive self absorbed tools who talk too loud on their cells while dining. I could go on, but it will just give me a pain. There are no ladies and gentlemen anymore, just narcissistic low brows who behave badly and dress worse than lawn care workers.
    O tempora, o mores! My friend, outside of your cellphone reference I have read the exact same lament being expressed during the bronze age. Why manners have been sliding so long pretty soon they'll be the worst they've ever been...again.
     
  18. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Well-Known Member

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    Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....

    Charles Dickens agrees with you.

    I do reluctantly believe that the English people are habitually consenting parties to the miserable imbecility into which we have fallen, and never will help themselves out of it. Who is to do it, if anybody is, God knows.
     
  19. Brian278

    Brian278 Well-Known Member

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    West Palm Beach, FL
    It is only antiquated when people accept dress codes as such. I don't see dressing well as an antiquated standard. I see it as good grooming and taste.

    "often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity."

    Yes, when one is playing softball or baseball a t-shirt and baseball cap is certainly acceptable and functional. However, when a 30 or 40 something wears jeans, t-shirt, running shoes and a ball cap to a restaurant its "Hey! Beaver! You forgot your glove!" Kryse sake, grow up! Your not 12 anymore!

    Children should dress with play in mind unless they are attending a funeral or church or dining out. Adults should dress appropriately as well. "Ditch the cargo pants and flip-flops, Bozo, you're on a date with a lady who is dressed to the nines!"

    No, it is distressing to see such slovenly attire on so many people in the U.S. The richest country in the world and we dress like refugees from Rwanda. It's not about dress, it is about behavior. People have no respect anymore for others. They dress improperly and claim it comfortable. If a tie and shirt are not comfortable, guess what? They DON'T FIT!

    People's behavior have changed just a their dress. Loud, boorish, offensive self absorbed tools who talk too loud on their cells while dining. I could go on, but it will just give me a pain. There are no ladies and gentlemen anymore, just narcissistic low brows who behave badly and dress worse than lawn care workers.

    Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....


    I agree there are times when people are dressed inappropriately based on the classic (also your) standard. And I like to see men in suits when it's appropriate. But I'm personally more concerned about people dressing poorly in terms of style than in terms of the standard of formality established long ago by mostly northeastern affluent society. The looks sported over in streetwear (albeit by a younger crowd) are far more pleasing to my eye than a tent-like dress shirt, too-long trousers, and the much-maligned square-toed KC monstrosities. But taking offense to either is missing the point, IMO.

    T-shirts and jeans are acceptable in more and more places, and perceiving this as a lack of respect is merely a case of projecting your own norms onto others. You may feel as if it's ungentlemanly to wear jeans to a nice restaurant, but it's unlikely that the person wearing them feels that way, and he likely thinks your ideas about clothing are on the stuffy side. I just think it's unnecessarily exhausting to wax poetic about the glory days gone by when farmers wore suits. Times have changed, they've changed before, and each time at least some of the older generation expresses it's outrage. It's not so different than whining about "kids today!" and "that darned rap music!". My generation is far more forgiving of cell-phone use than I imagine yours is (guessing at your age), and the next one will likely be more still. The context of our culture and society has changed, and the standard of attire and interaction with it. What was offensive 50 years ago may not be today, and to perceive some insult based on poor standard of dress is often simply cultural intolerance.
     
  20. Ringo

    Ringo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Aug 17, 2007
    "often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity."

    Yes, when one is playing softball or baseball a t-shirt and baseball cap is certainly acceptable and functional. However, when a 30 or 40 something wears jeans, t-shirt, running shoes and a ball cap to a restaurant its "Hey! Beaver! You forgot your glove!" Kryse sake, grow up! Your not 12 anymore!

    I don't know about you, but I prefer not to play ball in jeans. They can rip. Just ask some folks over in SW&D, and they'll confirm this.

    I think the reason most people will claim dressing in jeans and t-shirts to be comfortable is because it is. I will say, however, that I am as comfortable in my work clothes as I am in my casual outfits. But several of my peers don't feel the way I do primarily because they feel that the outfit is too "stuffy" and uptight. They associate the corporate culture and attitude with the clothes, and therefore, when they are not at work, they choose to wear clothes that reflect their mood. They want to chill out, relax, and have fun, and for them, wearing a shirt and tie is not conducive to this mindset.

    For what it's worth, I find women to be more uncomfortable in work clothes than most most men are. Fortunately for them, they can dress up without looking like they are going to work. For men, there are significantly fewer options. Most of us consider getting dressed up to mean wearing a jacket and tie, and a lot of guys just don't like wearing those because they are either not comfortable in those clothes, or they don't want to look like they just got out of a business meeting. I think the latter (or the combination of both) is what has spawned the whole dressy jeans with jackets/blazers [and the optional tie] look that you see around these days. Men simply don't have the options that women have, and many men today prefer to dress differently outside the work place.

    I am trembling.
     

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