Do any of you believe in God?

[RSS]

Originally Posted by emptym

No sir, I don't think they did. But I do think that much of what we think we know, we believe.

Originally Posted by emptym

Do we know the Sun revolves around the Earth or do we believe it?

I would hope that you believe that the earth revolves around the sun ... and not the sun around the earth.

 

[emptym]

Originally Posted by RSS

I would hope that you believe that the earth revolves around the sun ... and not the sun around the earth.
Oops! I'm an idiot. That's what I meant.

Thanks for catching that.

 

[itsstillmatt]

nvm.

 

[JustinW]

Originally Posted by emptym

Oops! I'm an idiot. That's what I meant.

Thanks for catching that.

And I though you were making a very clever point that just went way over my head.

 

[WorkingClassDude]

Originally Posted by emptym

Haven't been able to follow this thread, but just skimmed a few posts. Thought I'd reply to two things in this one's good thoughts/questions.

First, God/gods let ****** things happen for a good reason, at least according to Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. The thought is that God permits evil in parts for the good of the whole. The best example is that God ultimately wills love, but there's no love without freedom and no freedom without the possibility of evil. So God permits evil for the sake, ultimately, of love.

Second, Occam was a Catholic, Franciscan monk. And the simplest answer to the question of the origin of all things is a single cause, a god. no?

I understand religions will have a supposed justification for the existence of evil. But if there were such things as miracles, let some African nations get some clean water, or punish indefinitely any 'bad people' and sinners and whatnot. The way life has taught me to see things, is that there are plenty of 'wicked' people (by religious standards) who have tons of money and power who lead healthy long lives and die with a clean conscience because our seemingly godless existence allows for it. And plenty of good, deserving people who lead terrible, suffering existences just because **** happens in life and nature whether you pray or not. Because that's just how the world is. imo.

 

[emptym]

Sorry JW!

Originally Posted by MiddleClassDude

I understand religions will have a supposed justification for the existence of evil.
Some make more sense than others. You might also read Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov. In that, Ivan asks questions like this. And the best answer in the book is given in the book on the Russian monk, Zossima. The answer is not so much of an argument though. It's more of a claim, namely that when one has a kind of a mystical experience or conversion, often through suffering, one will see (1) one's own responsibility for all of the sin and suffering in the world, (2) that the world is fabulously beautiful and harmonious even now. Ivan's big sticking point -- the reason he will not "accept" the world God has created -- is the suffering of innocent children. He tells a few gruesome stories about kids being harmed by their parents, etc. I think we could extend that even further: why even would God create a world in which babies cry when they're hungry, or even at birth? Lots of innocents suffering. I think there are many good ways of answering Ivan's question and my extension of it. But a good way is to ask another question. Having suffered a lot in your life (since we all suffer), do you wish you were never born?

But if there were such things as miracles, let some African nations get some clean water, or punish indefinitely any 'bad people' and sinners and whatnot. The way life has taught me to see things, is that there are plenty of 'wicked' people (by religious standards) who have tons of money and power who lead healthy long lives and die with a clean conscience because our seemingly godless existence allows for it. And plenty of good, deserving people who lead terrible, suffering existences just because **** happens in life and nature whether you pray or not. Because that's just how the world is. imo.

Yes, you're right. There is a lot of injustice in this world. But I'm not sure we always measure the good with clear eyes. Sometimes, for example, it is better to be poor and hungry than rich and well fed. Have you ever heard the expression, "To have much inspires conceit, to have little, thought." I agree with that a lot. All of this is not to say that we should not work for what people call social justice. Iammatt can vouch for my position on that.

Great thoughts/Qs, btw.

 

[XenoX101]

Originally Posted by MiddleClassDude

I understand religions will have a supposed justification for the existence of evil. But if there were such things as miracles, let some African nations get some clean water, or punish indefinitely any 'bad people' and sinners and whatnot. The way life has taught me to see things, is that there are plenty of 'wicked' people (by religious standards) who have tons of money and power who lead healthy long lives and die with a clean conscience because our seemingly godless existence allows for it. And plenty of good, deserving people who lead terrible, suffering existences just because **** happens in life and nature whether you pray or not. Because that's just how the world is. imo.

I think I can respond to this with a single well known idiom. You'll get yours.

 

[WorkingClassDude]

Originally Posted by XenoX101

I think I can respond to this with a single well known idiom. You'll get yours.

Yes, some get comeuppance, and some get that miracle to survive. But it's a rare occurrence on both ends of that. Most people hope to have it balance out.

 

[scarphe]

Originally Posted by XenoX101

I think I can respond to this with a single well known idiom. You'll get yours.

or you donate money to the churc and the nd of your life and get a free pass.

 

[XenoX101]

Originally Posted by scarphe

or you donate money to the churc and the nd of your life and get a free pass.

Yeah but the problem with this argument is that it assumes that God is a moron

.

 

[robbie]

I believe in God, yes.

But I am unwilling to believe in the definitions of God many people have.

 

[culture]

i look at religion the same way i look at anything else: give me some proof, and im with you, give me no proof and im not.

faith isnt enough for me to believe in religion, or anything else for that matter.

 

[Nosu3]

Is there anyone who believes in god but still rejects it? Seems a lot of people who believe in god are also religious and want to believe in it, but is there someone who believes in god yet doesn't want it to exist?

 

[MyOtherLife]

I most certainly do believe in God. Jesus is Lord and Saviour. Amen.

I do NOT believe in organised religion.

 

[Eeyore]

God hates me for not believing in him.