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Discuss Swaine Adeney Brigg cases

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by HEPennypacker, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. MMNY

    MMNY Member

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    Quote:I suppose not, and I'm not accusing him of anything. His name is readily available at Ebay; it is not private, and I was only responding to the person who asked if it was from a UK seller on eBay. The products he's selling look quite genuine and I know there are variables in products. Also, he's a very nice guy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  2. MoosicPa

    MoosicPa Well-Known Member

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    I thought
    I thought you said you got his name via email? It looks genuine to me, machine stitched as opposed to hand stitched, but legit.
     
  3. letsi

    letsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, here's my 2 cents as one of the customer who actually bought one of Ray's briefcase.
    Ray publicly disclosed that his briefcases are only hand stitched for the handles, chapes as well as the stitching on the straps and buckles as can be seen on his ebay listing. http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/The-Gran.../251792448892?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:SG:1123 As what Simon had noticed for this seller, he left out that fact or he could be parroting SAB's marketing line that all parts of SAB's briefcase are hand crafted. That said, the discrepancies here would be the stitching on the leather straps considering SAB West Minister briefcases generally only have their straps imprinted with parallel lines and not stitched like what Ray does for his briefcases. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWAINE-ADEN...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
    Ray's ebay nick is actually som3652010 in case anyone's wondering... As for the case that you've gotten, you've got to show more pictures but the stitched straps, sharp ended strap holds and squared buckles are signatures of Ray's current work (i.e. after SAB) not found in SAB's, the strap holds of his work have crosses as you can see in this picture [​IMG] which he claimed was something of his personal signature he had retained from his SAB days as seen in the below SAB briefcases previously made by him. [​IMG] It's up to individuals if they want to take that claim with a pinch of salt but I've not spotted the crosses on the holds on the newer SAB briefcases shown here on this thread nor the ones on SAB's website. Hence it's quite surprisingly to see this together with the stitched leather straps I've noticed on the seller's listing of all SAB briefcases he sold... The top of the first leather partition is actually reinforced by stitching to another piece of leather that is imprinted and branded with Ray's shop's name. Westminister Briefcases from SAB does not have this. It is also something not shown by the seller for all his SAB briefcase listing's photos [​IMG] As for if anyone bought his cases and re-branded them as SAB... Looking at the Westminister briefcases the seller in question has sold recently, they all appeared to bear those features of Ray's briefcases (other than the one listing with the round lock which Ray doesn't really use IIRC) which none of the SAB briefcases showcased in this thread have (would love to be proven wrong) Ray could have chipped in too but he's no longer responding much to emails or posts here after giving up this trade.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  4. MMNY

    MMNY Member

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    There were more pics but I didn't post them. However, On the one I purchased the strap holds have crosses, just like in the pictures you showed, but the label inside says Swaine Adeney 1750. When I receive it, I'll follow up.
     
  5. Sonny1

    Sonny1 Member

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    As mentioned above, these cases are being sold with the Swaine Adeney label inside. If they have genuinely been manufactured by SAB, then you're getting great value, as I recently bought a Paternoster from the London store for £2295. If they haven't been manufactured by SAB, then that opens up a different issue.
     
  6. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    It should be said that the cross hatch mark isnt somthing unique to Ray, its a traditional harness makers way of marking keepers. We do it with some of our stuff as well. Much more a mark of a traditionaly trained British harness maker or saddler than a makers mark. Id have thought all SABs older workers would have done this to be honest, they were originally saddlers.
     
  7. letsi

    letsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's a claim Ray made so it's up to individuals how to make of it :)

    In his words:
    As you probably guessed, both of the cases in the picture are made by me (the crosses on the strap retainers are a giveaway) and supplied by Swaine Adeney. The one on the left is London Tan ( which is the closest to my Tan) the one on the right is chestnut. ​
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  8. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    Definititley not a Ray only thing, Ive never met him or seen his work, I was trained by a saddler who trained at a firm bought by SAB many years ago though. This is one of our harness leather belts, looks a pretty similar signature :)

    [​IMG]

    Charlie
     
  9. letsi

    letsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's up to Ray to decide if he wants to defend his claim here, I'm just passing along what I heard from him :)
    On my end, I'm just curious how he managed to confirm the two bags in my above picture was made by him but I didn't manage to ask him that question in the end. :slayer:
     
  10. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! It would be pretty ridiculous to claim that cross creased style of keeper or loop was unique to him, its been done for hundreds of years in lots of forms from the simple X to very ornate. Ive got at least two books here documenting it. I cant imagine thats what he meant though. In the context of the SAB workshop when he was working there he may have been the only person doing it that way or they may all have unique marks they used - people like to sign their own work.

    Its relatively easy to recognise your own work when you have an established style. He will have his own set of tools that will be distinctive to him and he'll reconginze his own stitching and how he tends to construct things. If he says he recongizes the cases Id be surprised if he was wrong

    Charlie
     
  11. MoosicPa

    MoosicPa Well-Known Member

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    I checked my SAB Westminster bag, which I purchased directly from SAB's former St. James St. shop, about 10 years ago, and it has the x cross on the strap retainers.
     
  12. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Pat made it. I don't think he's an SF guy to ask directly. Always a great thing to know the name of the person who made your stuff..
     
  13. letsi

    letsi Well-Known Member

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    Ray did mention in an earlier reply on this thread that he worked in SAB for over 20 years which I'm quoting here;

     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  14. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    Id forgotten he'd posted here. If I owned a case with those strap stays Id email him with some photos to see if he could confirm if the case was one of his. As above, really nice to be able to confirm the specific person who made your stuff..

    Charlie
     
  15. Sonny1

    Sonny1 Member

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    I believe that the original theme of this thread was to authenticate new cases being sold on Ebay by a certain UK seller. They are being sold as new and at substantial discounts to SAB's online price. You certainly cannot get anything like these discounts from their London store. The cases are being sold with Swaine Adeney labels inside. The question is whether they have genuinely been manufactured by SAB, considering the subtle design differences. If they have been manufactured by another craftsman outside of SAB, should they be sold with SAB labels inside?
     
  16. letsi

    letsi Well-Known Member

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    I think obviously we're debating if the briefcase is indeed from SAB and we're awaiting more photos from the buyer to verify the authenticity here. I don't think anyone in this thread said anything about it being okay to mislead buyers with mis-labelled briefcases if that's what you're implying.

    I'm pretty sure Ray has pride in his work and would never pass off his briefcases as something from his former employer if we do confirm the briefcases to be crafted by him. So the question is whether this Ebay seller has the intent to deceive buyers by reselling Ray's briefcase (if it's made by him) with a SAB label.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  17. MMNY

    MMNY Member

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    I will update with photos/info once I receive the briefcase. There is a 14 day money back guarantee, and I did address the issue of the design difference/deep discount with the seller, and I'll update with that info, too. Right now, I just want to get it and authenticate (or not) the briefcase. Give me a few days.
     
  18. MMNY

    MMNY Member

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    By the way, here are a few more pics of it from eBay.
    . [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  19. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Well-Known Member

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    I imagine good photos of the areas that should be handstitched might be most instructive. Thats by far the hardest thing in the case technically so if its a fake least likely to be good. The handle from a distance looks quite SAB like. The fully machine stitched straps dont look like the last set of SAB straps I repaired, but we do very little with their stuff so Im not familiar with their variations.

    Charlie
     
  20. MMNY

    MMNY Member

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    Equus, Is this pic helpful to you, with regard to hand stitching?[​IMG]
     

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