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Denim 101 for Men's Clothing

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by kaxixi, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    I sort of see your point, and LA Guy made the same one, albeit less flippantly.

    But what the suit has going for it that raw denim does not is a sense of timelessness. I like suits and classic tailored menswear because if I do it right, my suits and shoes will still look great in 10 years. Yes, certain elements come and go - lapel widths may be narrow or wide, shoulders may be soft or padded - but if I stay relatively close to the middle or have my own sense of style about it, I'll still be able to wear them in 10 years. It's the difference so many point out between style and fashion.

    Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.


    I disagree with you on both points. It is all fashion. The longevity of a suit may be longer than that for denim trends, but they are all fashion. If you have a strong sense of personal style, you will be able to incorporate old pieces with new without a problem. I still wear Jil Sander pieces from 1998 today, and will pair the pieces with stuff from FW08. The extreme stuff (ticket pockets - already becoming increasingly gauche, extremely high gorge) in suit design, on the other hand, will look just as dated as the extreme stuff in denim/casual fashion (carrot leg jeans) five years from now.
     
  2. lefty

    lefty Well-Known Member

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    I see you more as a denim gaucho type.

    [​IMG]

    - B


    I think I had a pair of those in 1974. Back then denim protocol demanded that you sized down 10 or so. They were so tight that you had to lay back to put them on -- having a few friends grab the belt loops helped -- and pull the zipper up with a pair of pliers. Once on, you arranged yourself below the belt line and took a piece of sandpaper to your bulge for the perfect cock fade. And then ... the disco.

    lefty
     
  3. The Louche

    The Louche Well-Known Member

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    I have one pair in my rotation now - some raw Nudies, I belive they are called the Average Joe cut - straight leg, medium rise. I consider them to be iGent aside from the slightly flashy pockets.
     
  4. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    . . . Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.
    Are there women who are into men because of their cool denim, or is it just an "impress the other guy" thing?
     
  5. Teger

    Teger Well-Known Member

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    Nudies are probably a 7.5 on the iGent scale. TRUE iGent would be bespoke denim in a trouser cut?
     
  6. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    Are there women who are into men because of their cool denim, or is it just an "impress the other guy" thing?

    You mean, is it the same as it is for tailored clothes?


    - B
     
  7. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt Well-Known Member

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    The wild and the pure.
    I don't wear odd jackets, period. I do wear Wings+Horns, Nom de Guerre, and Engineered Garments jackets with my jeans, but not sportsjackets per se. I can see why people do, and I like the Warhol thing, but it is not my thing.
    Maybe that is my problem. Maybe I am doing it right, but still hating it.
     
  8. RJmanbearpig

    RJmanbearpig Well-Known Member

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    You mean, is it the same as it is for tailored clothes, and sports cars and stereos?


    - B

    FTFY
     
  9. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    Are there women who are into men because of their cool denim, or is it just an "impress the other guy" thing?

    You mean, is it the same as it is for tailored clothes?

    I think there are DEFINITELY women who are into the jeans thing - it may not be a huge number, but it's equal to the number of guys who are into the jeans in the first place.

    This contrasts sharply with the tailored clothes thing. The only people who give two f***s about a great suit or odd jacket vs. a Mens Wearhouse one are SF members.
     
  10. randallr

    randallr Well-Known Member

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    That's definitely not it!!! Post pics Matt...pretty please.
     
  11. Teger

    Teger Well-Known Member

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    Nope, expensive niche jeans are just to impress other guys. When you catch a guy trying to read your back pocket tag... then you know.
     
  12. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Well-Known Member

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    It is extremely unlikely that the pair of 10-year-old jeans you have in your closet are in any way attractive today...douchebag. So we've established that the jeans you have probably look bad, so now, what should you get?
    This thread is fascinating. Truly. But I'm a 50+ guy who wears jeans in my apartment after I've changed out of my suits. Or to run to the grocery store, or some other mundane errand. (Sorry Jan, no ascot for me[​IMG] ) Wouldn't I look like a douchebag if I suddenly show up wearing a pair of these high-end denim? You know, like I'm trying too hard?
     
  13. onion

    onion Well-Known Member

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    I sort of see your point, and LA Guy made the same one, to an extent.

    But what the suit has going for it that raw denim does not is a sense of timelessness. I like suits and classic tailored menswear because if I do it right, my suits and shoes will still look great in 10 years. Yes, certain elements come and go - lapel widths may be narrow or wide, shoulders may be soft or padded - but if I stay relatively close to the middle or have my own sense of style about it, I'll still be able to wear them in 10 years. It's the difference so many point out between style and fashion.

    Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.


    Well my only point is that you can't judge all 'premium' denim based on one pair, just as you can't judge all suits off of one.

    You say you like Diesels, if you looked around a bit, I'm sure you could fine a pair of high quality, raw, Japanese denim with almost an identical cut. The only visible difference (to a denim noob at least) will be the color (and FWIW, almost every other pair of raw denim [and jeans in general] in the world is a different color than 5ep; it's very unique), quality of the dye/cotton used, and the fading/distressing.

    Imo you picked one of the least modern jeans worn by SW&D regularly to buy. I have the same pair, and while I love them, the cut is not for everyone all the time, nor is it insanely modern. I love them with boots, but anything else I think looks a bit odd. The color is also hard to match sometimes, again making it not the best choice for an 'everyday' jean.

    If you do the research, which you may or may not even think is worth your time, at this point, I promise you you can find a pair of jeans you love, and are SF SW&D approved. If you posted the names of your favorite cuts from Diesel I'm sure someone here could recommend a similar pair of high quality raw denim.

    And as far as denim trends: I sort of agree. The skin tight jeans I think will go out at some point, but most people on SW&D don't really wear those anyway (as most people on MC seem to think). Most people wear 'slim' jeans, which on the contrary, I don't think will ever go out of style, as they never have before.
     
  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    I don't wear odd jackets, period.

    We still like you.

    I do wear Wings+Horns, Nom de Guerre, and Engineered Garments jackets with my jeans, but not sportsjackets per se. I can see why people do, and I like the Warhol thing, but it is not my thing.

    Right. While it is possible to maybe...if you're lucky...pull off wearing a tailored jacket with jeans, the fact of the matter is that the type of jackets that you and I instead tend to wear with jeans probably produces a more harmonious result. This means, in turn, that it is a bit fashion-y by MC standards.

    So what? It's not a big deal. Don't like it? Don't do it.

    The odd jacket/jeans combination is one of the poster children of the spectacularly bad. It's been debased by many a bad practitioner. On the rare occasions it is a success, you can almost count on the outfit looking even better if the jeans were deleted and a pair of normal trousers substituted.


    - B
     
  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Are there women who are into men because of their cool denim, or is it just an "impress the other guy" thing?

    There are definitely women who really like a guy in jeans, if that is what you mean. And for those women, "Dad" jeans certainly don't cut it.
     
  16. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    You mean, is it the same as it is for tailored clothes?


    - B


    Which of us keeps bragging about the blazer suit he doesn't even have?
     
  17. Tarmac

    Tarmac Well-Known Member

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    I think there are DEFINITELY women who are into the jeans thing - it may not be a huge number, but it's equal to the number of guys who are into the jeans in the first place.

    This contrasts sharply with the tailored clothes thing. The only people who give two f***s about a great suit or odd jacket vs. a Mens Wearhouse one are SF members.


    This doesn't really capture what the SuFu denim "clique" is about. It is much closer to how males on MC discuss suits and shoes than you think. Women are into jeans, but the douchebag ones. They like to see men wear the same brand they do, Cock and Cepublic, Douchizens of Humanity, etc. The denim brands I recommended are discussed in almost exactly the same way as suits are discussed here. I am dead serious.

    As an aside, here is the only pic that has ever made me think the jeans-wearer was an iGent (in hiding, of course).

    http://bp0.blogger.com/_qjpwnPW4c1o/...ean-length.jpg
     
  18. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    The odd jacket/jeans combination is one of the poster children of the spectacularly bad. It's been debased by many a bad practitioner. On the rare occasions it is a success, you can almost count on the outfit looking even better if the jeans were deleted and a pair of normal trousers substituted.

    It's more a compromise for the sake of convenience than anything else. It's not a favorite look of mine and I generally don't do it, but it's several degrees better than a suit without a tie.
     
  19. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Well-Known Member

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    This thread is fascinating. Truly.

    But I'm a 50+ guy who wears jeans in my apartment after I've changed out of my suits. Or to run to the grocery store, or some other mundane errand. (Sorry Jan, no ascot for me[​IMG] )

    Wouldn't I look like a douchebag if I suddenly show up wearing a pair of these high-end denim? You know, like I'm trying too hard?


    Hah! I suppose you are implying that you do not look lke a douchebag otherwise....[​IMG]

    Seriously, there is simply no way to wear any clothes well when you start off with mental, emotional, or physical discomfort.

    It is also a fact that in the same way that most MC members taking a interest in building up a knowledge base about materials, construction, fit and different makers for tailored clothing, (presumably to increase the chances of looking elegant and comfortable in clothes within their means), it is similarly true that really great denim merits at least a little of that knowledge gathering if you are going to wear it well. And some of that knowledge might indicate that it pairs with other items from makers who are imbued in the world of casual clothes rather from makers for whom such things are alien.


    - B
     
  20. randallr

    randallr Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't really capture what the SuFu denim "clique" is about. It is much closer to how males on MC discuss suits and shoes than you think. Women are into jeans, but the douchebag ones. They like to see men wear the same brand they do, Cock and Cepublic, Douchizens of Humanity, etc. The denim brands I recommended are discussed in almost exactly the same way as suits are discussed here. I am dead serious.

    As an aside, here is the only pic that has ever made me think the jeans-wearer was an iGent (in hiding, of course).

    http://bp0.blogger.com/_qjpwnPW4c1o/...ean-length.jpg



    I am going to say I have to agree with this. Or at least I can see how this works. Not that suits have a "popular" brand though.
     

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