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Definitive Technology speakers

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by InsBrokerTX, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. GQgeek

    GQgeek Well-Known Member

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    This is not good advice.

    You've said that in response to jsut about any AF/audio-related thread ever. I'm starting to think that you're a bot at this point. [​IMG]
     
  2. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    I haven't come across any negative reviews of the Definitive speakers so I'm surprised at all the negative opinions here. What's exactly wrong with them?
    If you're happy with them, then it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. For me, DefTech's always been a me-too company, hopping on the latest audio trend, and executing it not as well. One has to admire their ability to outlast those that they have copied, though.
    You've said that in response to jsut about any AF/audio-related thread ever. I'm starting to think that you're a bot at this point. [​IMG]
    As opposed to a bot that poasts links to the WSJ? [​IMG] We have agreed on a few things, like our dislike of Def Techs, that tubes are great for electrostats (though I doubt we came to that conclusion the same way), and that one should audition speakers in person to see what appeals to them. I object to AF's post in that it was a specific, arbitrary recommendation with no regard for the OP's needs or the brands that are readily available for audition locally. A lot of people who are looking to buy their first high quality system often drive themselves crazy trying to find the One True Brand from the subset of brands available from something like Stereophile's recommended list instead of seeing what's available around them, and finding what they like from there. There are so many good speakers out there these days at so many price points that if the OP named the brands available to him for audition, I'm sure any number of us could suggest at least one brand that will sound really good. --Andre
     
  3. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    Definitive Technology's HQ is actually in my business park. They're about 2 buildings up from me as I type.

    I haven't listened to DefTech stuff in a long, long time but when I was the general consensus was that they made big, large boomy speakers for the home theater crowd who wanted big noise and didn't really know much about audio. I auditioned one of their big floorstanders with a side-facing sub and it was pretty crappy, certainly in comparison with many other brands with lesser distribution.

    My understanding is that they've also gone downmarket since I was looking, moving to offshore manufacturing, which I do not believe they used to do... though I could be wrong on this point.

    I do think Paradigm is an excellent catch-all recommendation for the newbie with a few bucks to burn.

    Maggies are going to be shit for HT.
     
  4. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    Definitive Technology's HQ is actually in my business park. They're about 2 buildings up from me as I type.

    I haven't listened to DefTech stuff in a long, long time but when I was the general consensus was that they made big, large boomy speakers for the home theater crowd who wanted big noise and didn't really know much about audio. I auditioned one of their big floorstanders with a side-facing sub and it was pretty crappy, certainly in comparison with many other brands with lesser distribution.

    My understanding is that they've also gone downmarket since I was looking, moving to offshore manufacturing, which I do not believe they used to do... though I could be wrong on this point.

    I do think Paradigm is an excellent catch-all recommendation for the newbie with a few bucks to burn.

    Maggies are going to be shit for HT.


    +1 to everything above (except the offshore manufacturing, which I have no idea about). PSB is another very good Canadian brand.

    --Andre
     
  5. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    This is not good advice. Maggies have limited bass and dynamic range. If these things are important to the OP, then Maggies are not for him. Def Techs on the other hand always suck, so avoid them.

    --Andre


    This is simply wrong. The Maggie 1.6s have tremendous dynamic range with the exception of a slightly limited low end below 40hz. It should be noted that quality of mid-bass is considered by many to be more important than very low bass.

    Barry Diament, the mastering engineer who worked for Atlantic Records, uses Maggies to master albums for his new SoundKeeper label. He has written much on the special qualities of the Maggie line and the myth that its dynamic range is limited.

    http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/studio.htm

    Perhaps equally important, the Maggie 1.6s are named as one of the best bargains in high end audio in The Absolute Sound's November Buying Guide (which I got this past weekend at the Rocky Mountain audio show, even before release date).
     
  6. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    Maggies are going to be shit for HT.

    I'm sorry Douglas but you are out of your depth here. Have you heard the Maggie HT system? It is one of the finest out there. They in fact build special "wing wall" speakers for the rear channels and have a dedicated center channel.

    Lots of misinformation in this thread. [​IMG]
     
  7. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    Some further reading: http://www.magnepan.com/review_MG16_by_Brian_Damkroger
    Like many things in audio, these magnetic planar designs have evolved considerably. My friend Tom has 3.6s partnered with C-J gear and that sounds terrific. My friend Kevin has 20.1s driven by 1200 watt Macintosh amps and that can realistically convey the weight and power of an orchestra.
     
  8. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry Douglas but you are out of your depth here. Have you heard the Maggie HT system? It is one of the finest out there. They in fact build special "wing wall" speakers for the rear channels and have a dedicated center channel.

    Lots of misinformation in this thread. [​IMG]


    You win. I agree. Maggies are the best speakers ever and there are no compromises. Everything you own, in fact, is the best in its field.
     
  9. uhurit

    uhurit Well-Known Member

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    Would definitely look into Vienna Acoustics speakers + a heavy duty sub. These are good enough for both HT and 2-channel listening
     
  10. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    You win. I agree. Maggies are the best speakers ever and there are no compromises. Everything you own, in fact, is the best in its field.
    [​IMG] No one is saying that I own the best. In fact, most audiophiles feel they are weak in many areas and constantly upgrade. But it would be unfair to suggest that 25 years of designing and building systems for my family and friends do not give me some good insights here. I'm quite serious and very opinionated about audio as you can tell. I go to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest annually and am bit of a fixture on the Atlanta audio scene; I usually attend the Stereophile shows (soon to start again) when they have them. Probably been to two dozen shows over the years including the last 3 Rocky Mountain shows where I stayed all three days and heard literally several hundred systems of all types. I read six or more high end journals every month (HiFi+, Absolute Sound, Stereophile, HiFi News, Tone Audio, Positive Feedback) and participate on a number of boards. In addition, I record classical music for Chesky Record's HDtracks.com website which will soon host our hirez recordings. Our small live to 2 track label has recorded two dozen or so classical, jazz and Celtic performances each year for the last ten years and we are paid for our work via session fees. Arguably most importantly, I go to lots of concerts and listen to lots of sound systems and I am aware of what sound aspects are hard to recreate. So by doing all of this I feel I do have a bit of understanding and insight into what products and brands work better than others for a variety of specific applications from recording to audio to home theater. If you don't like my opinion then that's cool by me. I just want to provide the OP the best advice I can give based on this experience and countless hours fiddling with gear. You really should hear the Maggie home theater system set up well. I think you will be impressed. The key thing about HT is having the front-center-left speakers all the same brand and of sufficient quality and identical timbre.
     
  11. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    The OP's receiver does 120 watts per channel, enough to drive the Maggies and the center. For $2,500, you could do a system consisting of 1.6s (L,R) and the center channel CC3. Then you can add a REL sub and wing wall Maggies as desired. We had a local dealer that had a room around 16 by 20 where these same speakers were used with a Sony SXRD and a Pioneer Elite receiver. He would show great concert DVDs and the sound quality was superb. I recently got my brother to buy a pair of 1.6s on my recommendation and he uses a Denon 5800 receiver which works very well and has a plasma screen between the speakers and Maggie wing walls on the side. Again, great sound quality and the room is around 15 by 20 feet so not too far off. Be careful with the tile floor, that is really bad for sound. You should factor in some rugs. One silver lining however is the tile can be good for anchoring a nice equipment stand. Also, do not skimp on speaker cable and interconnect, they make a difference. PM me if you need recommendations. http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...tag=mncol;rnav
     
  12. Douglas

    Douglas Well-Known Member

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    Yup, what AF said. MAGGIES RULE!!!!
     
  13. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    Yup, what AF said. MAGGIES RULE!!!!

    I'm glad you agree. [​IMG]
     
  14. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    The Maggie 1.6s have tremendous dynamic range with the exception of a slightly limited low end below 40hz.

    The Maggies have below-average dynamic range. A Revel has tremendous dynamic range. Your notion of "tremendous dynamic range" has obviously been messed up by listening to too many LPs. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    And we're not talking low bass either, nor should we since 50 percent of the total power in a typical recording lies below 200 Hz, which is not even mid-bass.

    Have you heard the Maggie HT system?

    I have, and they're just not good. Even the Maggie reps who had set it up admitted that dynamic range was not their forte. And the reason is simple: the physics of the Maggie transducers limit their dynamic range.

    --Andre
     
  15. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    The Maggies have below-average dynamic range. A Revel has tremendous dynamic range. Your notion of "tremendous dynamic range" has obviously been messed up by listening to too many LPs. [​IMG] [​IMG] And we're not talking low bass either, nor should we since 50 percent of the total power in a typical recording lies below 200 Hz, which is not even mid-bass. I have, and they're just not good. Even the Maggie reps who had set it up admitted that dynamic range was not their forte. And the reason is simple: the physics of the Maggie transducers limit their dynamic range. --Andre
    You must have had a very poorly setup Maggie home theater system. The ones I have heard have been spectacular. Even Harry Pearson, a bit of a film fan, uses Maggies in both his surround and HT. In fact Harry Pearson and I have talked about what a great deal the 1.6s are in terms of bang for the buck. Jonathan Valin of TAS says in the latest issue that they challenge speakers far above their price point. Your comments about the dynamic range of Maggies are simply not true Andre but like our other audio discussions I can't change your mind and I don't desire to waste any more time trying to. Good day sir. You also have to remember, even with your flawed logic/experience/views above that dynamic range is one aspect of sound reproduction. Imaging, timbre, resolution, quickness, durability are just a few other factors that lead to long-term enjoyment of audio. My impression is that the OP wanted to have both functions of music listening and movie watching.
     
  16. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    Barry Diament, the mastering engineer who worked for Atlantic Records, uses Maggies to master albums for his new SoundKeeper label. He has written much on the special qualities of the Maggie line and the myth that its dynamic range is limited.

    http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/studio.htm

    Perhaps equally important, the Maggie 1.6s are named as one of the best bargains in high end audio in The Absolute Sound's November Buying Guide (which I got this past weekend at the Rocky Mountain audio show, even before release date).


    Dude, you need to learn how to construct a logical argument.

    First of all, Diament says nothing about the DR of either the 1.6 or the 3.6 that he actually uses. He just says that he thinks it's revealing of what's on the recording. That page is basically audio pr0n.

    Second, he uses 3.6s, and I'm not sure how you're going to relate that to the 1.6.

    Third, the 1.6s being named a bargain by a raggy audio magazine does not contradict the fact that Maggies have limited dynamic range, and poor bass, not to mention poor dispersion at higher frequencies.

    Fourth, I'm really happy that you got a copy of the latest TAS even before the release date while attending RMAF.

    --Andre
     
  17. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    Your comments about the dynamic range of Maggies are simply not true Andre but like our other audio discussions I can't change your mind and I don't desire to waste any more time trying to. Good day sir.

    In other words, since I am not buying your usual appeals to authority which come in the form of anecdotes, name-dropping, and favorable-sounding weblinks, instead of trying to discuss the points in a logical manner with appropriate technical information, you're going to step out of the discussion.

    BTW, the Maggie HT demo was set up by Magnepan themselves. It was not badly setup for what it was, but you could easily hear the limits of their speakers.

    --Andre
     
  18. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you need to learn how to construct a logical argument. First of all, Diament says nothing about the DR of either the 1.6 or the 3.6 that he actually uses. He just says that he thinks it's revealing of what's on the recording. That page is basically audio pr0n. Second, he uses 3.6s, and I'm not sure how you're going to relate that to the 1.6. Third, the 1.6s being named a bargain by a raggy audio magazine does not contradict the fact that Maggies have limited dynamic range, and poor bass, not to mention poor dispersion at higher frequencies. Fourth, I'm really happy that you got a copy of the latest TAS even before the release date while attending RMAF. --Andre
    I know Barry very well and he finds the 1.6s have excellent dynamic range and he often discusses the excellent dynamic range of the 3.6s on music sites. The 1.6s and 3.6s use the same technology and have a similar sound but the highs are more fleshed out with the full ribbon on the 3.6s. However, Valin and others believe the 1.6 is a more cohesive speaker. I think he may be right although I really like the 3.6s. Dynamic range is the range of sound from softest to loudest and it encompasses two types - macro and micro. The 1.6s go down to 40hz and that captures most of what is happening musically but more importantly they really accurately capture what is going on in terms of detail (resolution) and timbre (tone color) of individual instruments. Being a panel speaker they excel at imaging as well like many mini-monitors do. I don't guess you have ever heard a well set-up pair of Maggies. They produce quite stunning sound. If they didn't then I would have chose another speaker as a long-term serious music lover.
     
  19. milosh

    milosh Well-Known Member

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    Barry Diament, the mastering engineer who worked for Atlantic Records, uses Maggies to master albums for his new SoundKeeper label. He has written much on the special qualities of the Maggie line and the myth that its dynamic range is limited. http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/studio.htm
    I'm sorry, but for me, suspending your audio interface in order to protect it from "performance damaging vibrations" is unbelievable bullshit.
     
  20. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    I don't guess you have ever heard a well set-up pair of Maggies. They produce quite stunning sound. If they didn't then I would have chose another speaker as a long-term serious music lover.

    Have you ever considered the idea that certain weaknesses of a speaker aren't important to you, but are to other people, so while you may find them unobjectionable, others may find them unacceptable? Just because I don't like something or hear something bad in something you like doesn't mean it was badly set up.

    --Andre
     

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