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Custom shirts

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cpal, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. jcusey

    jcusey Well-Known Member

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    My friendly neighborhood men's store carries (among other things) Kiton taillored clothing and Borrelli shirts. I asked the proprietor whether Borrelli had tried to sell him their tailored clothing. He said that yes, they had, but he wasn't interested for a number of reasons. The style, quality, and price point was similar to Kiton; and he didn't have the room for both. He has built up a considerable clientele with Kiton, and he didn't see any reason to try to shift them to Borrelli. I get the idea that if he had been asked to choose between Kiton and Borrelli, he would have chosen Kiton and gotten his shirts from another Neapolitan maker. I would think that most other store owners in the US would have done the same thing. I wonder what accounts for the difference with Dutch store owners.
     
  2. T4phage

    T4phage Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know, maybe because most of the stores already carried Borrelli shirts and did not want to carry Kiton's? One person mentioned to me in passing that they ordered Borrelli's suit jackets two cms longer than standard, maybe Borrelli allows more customisation by the store than Kiton?
     
  3. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Well-Known Member

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    Naturlaut had an extensive post on Borrelli suits with excellent pictures when they first came to the boutique in nyc. I'm assuming that's still archived on here somewhere.
     
  4. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Well-Known Member

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    there was a borrelli suit on yoox selling for under $1200. it may still be there (size 40).
     
  5. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    Here is Naturlaut's Borrelli post: Click here Unfortunately the pics don't work anymore. But the comments are excellent, and with some excellent contributions by Thracozaag. To save anyone from looking unsuccessfully, there was indeed a couple of size 38 Borrelli suit s on Yoox, but they have sold. T4phage, how do your Borrelli and Kiton suits comapre?
     
  6. marc39

    marc39 Well-Known Member

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    Be sure to check out the absolutely fantastic post in the "Kabbaz" thread by "learydennis". Anyone interested in buying a POS shirt from Kabbaz that he and his wife are hawking on EBay? So much for the exclusivity of Kabbaz masterpieces. Cherrytree, I'll bet you have several [​IMG]
     
  7. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    Shut the hell up, marc.
     
  8. learydenis

    learydenis Member

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    For those who may question my credibility or motives, pasted below is the message that Carl G(oldberg) sent me via email. I would not normally share email, which is by nature private, but the nature of Carl's letter gave me no choice. If I were in the industry, why would I have posted the information that I did? American Sember's address and phone number are there for all to see on the garment district's web site and on the yellow pages web site. Why is Carl so worried about the general public having knowledge of the industry? Why so secretive, Carl? Have you got something to hide?
     
  9. Cpal

    Cpal Well-Known Member

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    I stopped in the Geneva "shop" on Saturday and placed an order.  I left feeling more confident in my purchase than I have leaving any of the other countless "shirtmakers" I have purchased from in the past.

    The place is exactly what you read it is - a place where people make shirts - no fancy waiting area, no decorative artwork, no cash register - just evidence everywhere that you are at the right place.  Looking around his workshop all you see are rows and rows of manilla folders holding the patterns of countless customers - not his direct customers but those of the many, many shops that he makes shirts for - to keep their little secrets quiet I'll say it's a who's who list of tailors, haberdasheries, etc. all over the country - it felt like I could imagine a shop and then turn left and see it and their customers patterns.

    As for price ...  Mike said he is a wholesaler - and his prices reflect such.  You name the fabric, the mill, the pattern - it was there.  Prices from $185-$285 were more than reasonable given the selection of cottons - even more fun was placing my order and then walking uptown a few blocks to someone selling his shirts to see how much I had saved (over $500).

    I can't wait until my sample shirt is ready - around mid-January.

    Thanks everyone..
     
  10. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Learydenis,

    You left out the first part of the email you sent directly to me.

    [/b]Listen up Carl G(oldberg), you idiot
    No one gave me the right - I do not need for someone to give me the right.  

    Here is the email I sent to you.

    First off I have nothing to hide.

    I am in the industry.

    American Sember is not in the regular Yellow pages. They most likely are listed in the business to business yellow pages. Which means, they deal with business's and are not a retail operation. Go to 39 or 40th St. and buy fabric from the stores there.

    I make shirts and sell fabric. If you came into my business and bought shirts or fabric I would charge you sales tax unless you could prove you were in the trade. I would not accept any old tax ID # which you mentioned is so easy to get.

    You were also quoting fabric prices. Again, this is not information that is just available to the public.

    There are many factors that go into the cost of an item as you are aware. Material cost and direct labor are only the first of many expenses. The price of my shirts is somewhat lower compared to uptown street level operations. I have kept these low by staying upstairs in a rather unglamorous location. It does not make my product inferior. I do this to keep my prices lower to attract a more price sensitive and less status conscious customer.

    I don't remember calling you any names. Are you questioning my intelligence?

    I just made my opinion to you clear, Do you think the people at American Sember want to even discuss the merits of their product with someone who they are not even going to sell to? Who has that much time to waste. I will take the time    to educate my customers on the shirts they are buying from me. This is part of the sales process.

    What do you do for a living? Would you like your profit margins posted in a public forum?

    I have no desire to be involved in name calling.
     
  11. Alias

    Alias Well-Known Member

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    Seriously learydenis, it's nice of you to play investigative reporter but you really have to be more tactful about it.
     
  12. marc39

    marc39 Well-Known Member

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    I know of Carl Goldberg to be a first-class gentleman and a most honorable businessman who does not gouge his customers. He provides a quality product at a very fair
    price---No smoke and mirrors, no hype, no BS. He should not be dragged into this ongoing debate involving Mr. Kabbazz. He's being protective of business resources like Sember probably more out of respect to his industry and friendly competitors. I'd enthusiastically recommend Carl for custom shirts. Thank you.
     
  13. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Well-Known Member

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    Cpal,

    How many shirts does Geneva impose as a minimum number when placing an order?

    Thank you.

     
  14. Cpal

    Cpal Well-Known Member

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    I think four shirts is the minimum - although it seemed as though even that was a loose requirement. His process is that the order is placed - he makes the first try-on shirt and sends it to you. Wear it in to discuss any changes, etc. you'd like made or just call with the ok and he'll make the rest of the order and send them out.

    I'll let you know how the try-on fits - he said to expect it around the third week of Jan.
     
  15. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Well-Known Member

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    East Hampton & New York
    Most of you are aware that the Kabbaz Shirts topic is broken, missing pages, and no longer accepting posts. I have started a new topic to continue the broken one and posted the promised essay on making custom shirts.

    Alex Kabbaz
     
  16. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Well-Known Member

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    has anyone one heard from steve? i think he's m.i.a. let's hope nothing happened to him.
     
  17. A Harris

    A Harris Well-Known Member

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    J has updated us on the lost topics - you can read his post here.
     
  18. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Well-Known Member

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    East Hampton & New York
  19. jcusey

    jcusey Well-Known Member

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    Since this is the only thread that seems to be still functional, I guess I'll add my questions/comments here. All subsequent quotes are from Mr. Kabbaz's tome.
    It seems like every shirt manufacturer who uses this feature makes the claim about strength, and I've never understood it. I've never seen a shirt side seam fail, with or without the gusset. I can't imagine that that would be anywhere close to the most vulnerable area of the shirt. If you're having trouble with the side seams failing, what are you doing? Wearing the shirt to play rugby? I have to say, though, that I like the way the gusset looks. It may cover up inferior construction, and it may be completely non-functional. But I do think that it looks good for all its worthlesness.
    Do you have a picture of this foot that you can post? I'm having difficulty visualizing it. What's your philosophy about the design of the tails of the shirts? Looking at the picture of the pattern, it seems like your tails (or at least the tails of this particular shirt) are the typical American swallow-tail design and not as deep as those that you find on some of the British and Italian shirts. What do you think of Charvet's square-tail design? They claim that it tucks more neatly. I don't know about that, but it certainly looks cool. About fabric's country of origin: I've seen a lot written here and elsewhere that the quality of textiles from China, Japan, and other countries is steadily improving, to the point that some Italian mills are having difficulty justifying their higher prices on the basis of quality differences. What would have to happen for you to consider using fabric from mills other than in Switzerland and Italy? Thanks again for the essay, Mr. Kabbaz. It was very interesting and informative.
     
  20. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Well-Known Member

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    i haven't had a chance to read the whole essay yet but after looking at it briefly i'd like to thank mr. kabbaz. also i'd like to remark on the comment he made previously concerning the english tailoring traditions and how they've relied on these as an excuse to stop innovation and creativity. i don't recall exactly where that post was.

    i just want to say that i whole-heartedly agree with this and that it also extends to the way some people choose clothes.

    remember that what is deemed by many to be the 'classic' style is really only about 70 years old or less and that in order for this style to come about there had to be men who were willing to be innovative and break with the traditions that were handed down to them. for example the way the neapolitans decided to construct their suits differently than in the 'classic' english style.
     

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