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Custom shirts

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mike C., Nov 8, 2002.

  1. Jantzentailor

    Jantzentailor Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Fan,
    Stop argue with this GUY.
    I don't care what he said.
    I don't belive that he NEVER buy clothes from other country (beside U.S.A. or Euro.)
    I will save my energy for other apprciated person like Icereder.
    You know me, I don't like pushing poeple. ( espeacial some high-horse.)
    But, One thing is very strenght to me, I always thought American was very open, it seems Hong Kong's Icered is more open, I never had any arguement with other Icereder.
    In this forum aren't friendly. So I decided I will not post any more in this forum.
     
  2. daytona

    daytona Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Steve B>> Wake up man. Do you have a pair of sneakers like, Rebook, Nike, New Balance, Timberland, etc. Open your eyes and look at the labels. They are all made in China or your so-called "off shore" location. Also, they are made by low-educated (or no educated) workers.

    or....maybe you don't have any casual shoes. You wear your "Gucci" or "Prada" shoes everyday... even on the weekend.
     
  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,256
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    In answer to several issues that have been raised in this thread:

    Manufacturing techniques and standards tend to be pretty standard across the board. Yes, there are differences in pay scales in different countries, and in working conditions, but trust me, the typical L.A. garment worker is much more likely to be an underpaid, undereducated Mexican immigrant living in the barrio than a skilled artisan devoted to churning out pairs of Seven jeans for your consumption. In any given price range, the quality of the manufacture will generally reflect the price you pay, regardless of where it was made.

    A more expensive piece of clothing may be bearing with it a lot of marketing costs, and is likely be marked up deliberately to limit availability. But since there is less pressure to drive manufacturing costs down, more stringent quality control, more time-consuming manufacturing techniques, better materials, etc. can be used. Moreover, brand positioning is extremely important in the luxury market, and the perception that the goods are being made in sweatshops and/or with inferior materials would damage a brands credibility (remember when Nike went under the gun? What about the damaging accusations that Jil Sander left her eponymous label because Prada was forcing her to use cheaper materials?) Luxury goods tend to be made in affluent countries such as Italy, France, the U.K., Germany, Canada, and the U.S., (there is a trend afoot, started by Gucci, especially among smaller labels, to bring manufacturing in house and cut down on licensing, so they can better control the brand image). Even so, even the super high end houses are starting "Shanghai bespoke" service, which take advantage of cheaper, skilled, labor abroad. And I imagine that an enterprising Chinese tailor and businessman could make use of the strong dollar and cheaper manufacturing costs in Hong Kong to make a killing selling cheap custom order shirts and suits to U.S. customers without having to abuse their workers.

    That being said, I can speak neither to the working conditions at Jantzen Tailors nor to the quality of their shirts, since I have no experience with them. It does seem that a lot of the Jantzen Fan's posts seem to be PR for the tailor. I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone, but is there some way to check that these new members are legitimate, and are not just proxies? I would hate to see this forum hijacked.
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,256
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    Of course you're right. The argument that buying luxury goods constitutes a societal good is a specious one. It is possible to be socially responsible without buying $500 shoes.

    In fact, the argument could be made that buying $500 shoes is living beyond your means insofar as you are probably using more resources than you could command based on your actual productivity, and that the burden is being carried by, for example, starving people in the Sudan.

    An even more radical view would hold that you are entitled based on the global per capita average available resources, rather than based on your productivity. I don't hold by this ethos.

    On the other hand, supporting companies that you are aware do exploit workers is just as morally suspect.

    Probably the most socially responsible thing to do would be to live frugally and to give as much as possible directly to charities. Based on what I read on this board, I don't think that anyone of us should preach to another. It seems that we all consume as much as our ill-gained means will allow, from the grad students who buys Dior to lawyers who trolls NY and LA stores for designer suits, to the those with more shirts than days in the year or suits in a month to moneyed sons who can afford to pay cash for cars and to give them to their girlfriends for Christmas.

    Personally, I assuage my own guilt best I can by supporting charities and doing charitable work. But let us all be conscious that should there be a global revolution, we would be hard pressed to find one of us in the audience and not at the business end of the guillotine.
     
  5. Steve B.

    Steve B. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,272
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    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Daytona, CT Guy:

    Believe it or not, I do check the labels on everything I buy.

    I'm surprised to see how outraged the Jantzen people are about a mere question, which they still haven't seemed to ANSWER.

    Of course you and everyone else that posts here can buy whatever you want, made under whatever conditions you want.

    But because this is an open Forum, and we as gentleman should be able to agree to disagree, I have as much right to ask this question as the Jantzen gentlemen do to tout the advantages of their product.

    At this point I think the Forum's administrator needs to decide how/if this thread should continue.
     
  6. j

    j Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I don't mind the discussion of political issues at all, and especially those that relate to clothes and style. However, this thread is in the Men's Clothing Forum, and it was about custom shirts. I'd appreciate if the talk about cheap labor costs etc. could be moved to its own topic in the forum, possibly under General, so that the people who are interested in the shirts themselves can have a comfortable place to talk about them, and the people interested in the political or moral questions involved in production or purchase of clothing made cheaply abroad can discuss those issues separately.

    The Style Forum takes no official view on the use of 'cheap labor' for the manufacture of clothing.

    j.
     
  7. Steve B.

    Steve B. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,272
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    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    San Antonio
    J:

    Point well taken. For those of you who are interested, please check under Jantzen Challenge in General.
     
  8. Joe G

    Joe G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Location:
    Brussels
    Generally I'm in concurrance, but with one quibble. Italy is not, in the general sense, a "rich country". True, Northern Italy (Milan, etc.) is the richest area in the world, eclipsing NYC, Paris, and London. However, Southern Italy taken by itself is basically a third-world country, with labour rates barely above those implied by the comparison. Surprise, surprise: most "Made in Italy" clothing comes from south of Rome. An optimal blend, if you will, of low costs and ritzy label.

    (For more on the divides in Italy, American political scientist Bob Putnam has written some really good -- and amazingly readable, considering... -- stuff.)

    Peace,

    JG
     

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