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Curt Schilling: HOFer?

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Ambulance Chaser, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    pretty much what i was saying. again, you look at sutton and don't see HOF, at least in my eyes. 12-15 years of excellence certainly trumps 20-22 years of performing at era-adjusted mediocre levels.

    sanatana and a few others, like oswalt, will prove to be interesting cases in 12-15 years.


    Pedro is a first ballot HOFer and he won't get close to 300 wins either. Schilling gets in based on sustained excellence (ERA+ is 127, which means he was 27% better than the leagues he played in over his career - this is a very good number by historical standards) and an incredible post season record - one of the best of all time frankly. Using things like 20-win seasons and 300 wins for a career as benchmarks is completely outdated in the modern era of 5 man rotations and heavy bullpen use.
     
  2. rnoldh

    rnoldh Well-Known Member

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    Without a doubt.

    By today's standards at least.

    Remember, each era has to have it's hall of famers. Even if they're not as good as the previous generation's members.

    Gotta keep Cooperstown current and busy.
     
  3. Slopho

    Slopho Well-Known Member

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    ^20 win seasons and 300 wins are irrelevant, sadly, in this day and age. was he not better than sutton or neikro? i think he was.

    may lose points for being an epic cunt though.


    Wrong.

    Pedro is a first ballot HOFer and he won't get close to 300 wins either. Schilling gets in based on sustained excellence (ERA+ is 127, which means he was 27% better than the leagues he played in over his career - this is a very good number by historical standards) and an incredible post season record - one of the best of all time frankly. Using things like 20-win seasons and 300 wins for a career as benchmarks is completely outdated in the modern era of 5 man rotations and heavy bullpen use.

    and Wrong.
     
  4. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    ^dood, you're nuts.

    did you stop paying attention after addie joss retired?
     
  5. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.



    and Wrong.


    Wrong or not, I'll bet you $100 that both Pedro and Schilling are in.
     
  6. Slopho

    Slopho Well-Known Member

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    Wrong or not, I'll bet you $100 that both Pedro and Schilling are in.

    I never said they weren't in. IMO Schilling falls short of what a HOF pitcher should be. Pedro will go in on the first ballot, but not Schilling. Besides, I'm sure most people in here don't even have Schilling in their top 10 pitchers of this generation - 1980 - 2008
     
  7. Slopho

    Slopho Well-Known Member

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    ^dood, you're nuts.

    did you stop paying attention after addie joss retired?


    Nope, just after Tim O' Keefe
     
  8. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    ^[​IMG]

    Al Spalding had great stuff.
     
  9. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    I never said they weren't in. IMO Schilling falls short of what a HOF pitcher should be. Pedro will go in on the first ballot, but not Schilling. Besides, I'm sure most people in here don't even have Schilling in their top 10 pitchers of this generation - 1980 - 2008
    Clemens Maddux Pedro Big Unit . . . Then what 6 guys left are better than Schilling? Santana maybe, it's a little early. Nolan Ryan, I guess, though his career started in the 60's and he's a bit overrated. Mussina? Blyleven (I like him more than Schilling but most of his best years were in the 70's). Seaver (all time great but mostly before '80.) Who am I forgetting? Carlton, yes, though again with the pre 1980 thing. The 29 season span you chose is not really one generation, but two. I think that Schilling might be the clear #5 of his generation. edit: I forgot Glavine and Smoltz - they're Schilling's equals in my eyes, though I think Schilling edges both of them out if I'm forced to choose. I'd pick Smoltz over Schilling for one game though - two of the best clutch pitchers ever. Also forgot Roy Halladay, though he's a few years away from topping Schilling, he very well could at the rate he's going.
     
  10. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    Clemens
    Maddux
    Pedro
    Big Unit
    .
    .
    .
    Then what 6 guys left are better than Schilling? Santana maybe, it's a little early. Nolan Ryan, I guess, though his career started in the 60's and he's a bit overrated. Mussina? Blyleven (I like him more than Schilling but most of his best years were in the 70's). Seaver (all time great but mostly before '80.) Who am I forgetting? Carlton, yes, though again with the pre 1980 thing. The 29 season span you chose is not really one generation, but two. I think that Schilling might be the clear #5 of his generation.

    How about Glavine and Smoltz?
     
  11. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    How about Glavine and Smoltz?

    yeah, I edited as you were posting this.
     
  12. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    no on smoltz IMO.

    one spectacular season, 2 as a closer. not enough.

    i say:

    clemens
    maddux
    glavine
    pedro
    hoffman
    mussina
    mariano
    schilling
     
  13. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    No on Hoffman but I forgot Mariano - he's had an amazing career, even with the heavy discount I tend to give relievers. I suppose Eckersley is up there too.

    no on smoltz IMO.

    one spectacular season, 2 as a closer. not enough.

    i say:

    clemens
    maddux
    glavine
    pedro
    hoffman
    mussina
    mariano
    schilling
     
  14. MetroStyles

    MetroStyles Well-Known Member

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    no on smoltz IMO.

    one spectacular season, 2 as a closer. not enough.

    i say:

    clemens
    maddux
    glavine
    pedro
    hoffman
    mussina
    mariano
    schilling


    I say definite yes on Smoltz. His ERA+ has been sick. Highest ERA he has had since 1995 has been 3.49.
     
  15. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    ^when he pitches and is not busy nursing injuries.
     
  16. chorse123

    chorse123 Well-Known Member

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    David Wells? 10 15-win seasons.

    Clemens, as good as he was, I find hard to give credit for anything post Boston. He's HOF for those years, but...
     
  17. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Well-Known Member

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    no on smoltz IMO.

    one spectacular season, 2 as a closer. not enough.

    i say:

    clemens
    maddux
    glavine
    pedro
    hoffman
    mussina
    mariano
    schilling

    Smoltz's career stats are very similar to Schilling's, with the main difference being that Smoltz has 154 saves in addition to his 210 wins.
     
  18. Brian278

    Brian278 Well-Known Member

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    He's a dick, but he's in. Multiple rings, dominant post-season numbers, six-time all-star, got it done in both leagues...you have to give him a pass on the wins.

    I can't believe anyone is questioning Smoltz's spot in the top 10. He's there over Hoffman in a heartbeat, and I think he's better than Schilling. He's a marvel, and another dominant post-season pitcher.
     
  19. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Well-Known Member

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    ^^just looked again at his stats and you make a fair point. i guess i just always saw his as a distant third in the triumvirate of atlanta. not fair perhaps...
     
  20. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    Smoltz has been consistently great and has had an amazing career despite the injuries. I'm actually reversing now and putting him above Schilling. Plus he's a long time staple of my fantasy team and I've never owned Schilling, so I'm biased.
     

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