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Constructing 'spalla camicia' - is it advisable to do it with non-Neapolitan tailors?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by FCS, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. FCS

    FCS Well-Known Member

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    So I am commissioning a suit with this tailor for the first time. While I believe that he is capable of producing high-quality hand-made products, his pedigree is not Neapolitan and I'm interested to get a suit with some Neapolitan traits, especially having the spalla camicia shoulder. Would it be prudent to try that? For whatever it's worth, he's used to apprentice under Caraceni in Milan a long, long time ago and his 'house style' is more toward soft-tailoring, although definitely not as soft as the 'classical' Neapolitan's.

    To avoid confusion, I'm using the term spalla camicia as explained by this article from Manton:
    http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/T...anShoulder.htm
     
  2. Tomasso

    Tomasso Well-Known Member

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    Take a photo of the spalla camicia shoulder to your tailor and ask if he's up to the task. I understand that it's a tricky job, if not regularly practiced, even for the best of tailors.



    [​IMG]
     
  3. Carlo

    Carlo Well-Known Member

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    Even the Neapolitan Mastiff exhibits the dimpled shoulder:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. acidboy

    acidboy Well-Known Member

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    Even the Neapolitan Mastiff exhibits the dimpled shoulder:
    [​IMG]


    no pocket squares!
     
  5. brescd01

    brescd01 Well-Known Member

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    Do not do it. You will be disappointed, and you should be focusing the tailor's attention on other more important things for your first suit. If you must have Neopolitan, get Neopolitan shirts and pants, which can be ordered by mail.

    My opinion alone: imitations of various aspects of Neopolitan tailoring are not particularly attractive. A genuine Neopolitan garment is somehow greater than the sum of its parts.
     
  6. NoVaguy

    NoVaguy Well-Known Member

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    gotta agree with bresch. it sounds like a bad idea to ask a non-Neopolitan tailor for a Neopolitan suit. do you have any reason to believe he has experience with this technique?
     
  7. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Well-Known Member

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    So I am commissioning a suit with this tailor for the first time. While I believe that he is capable of producing high-quality hand-made products, his pedigree is not Neapolitan and I'm interested to get a suit with considerable Neapolitan traits, especially having the spalla camicia shoulder. Would it be prudent to try that? For whatever it's worth, he's used to apprentice under Caraceni in Milan a long, long time ago and his 'house style' is definitely more toward soft-tailoring, although definitely not as soft as the 'classical' Neapolitan's.

    To avoid confusion, I'm using the term spalla camicia as explained by this article from Manton:
    http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/T...anShoulder.htm


    Why not just go with his house style then?

    koji
     
  8. FCS

    FCS Well-Known Member

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    Why not just go with his house style then?

    koji


    Yeah, for the most part I do. I just think that a more organic shoulder would be a very nice touch - that's the only major exception.
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Show him a pic and ask him. While that shoulder is one of the hallmarks of Neapolitan tailoring, it is not exclusive to Naples. Tailors all over Italy know how to do it. Two of the tailors who do it well in NYC are not Neapolitan, though at least one of them learned it from a Neapolitan.
     
  10. edmorel

    edmorel Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider, have you seen this in person? Tastes are subjective but the ones I've seen are not something I would get. The sleeve looks sloppy for lack of a better word. For my taste it makes the overall look of the suit seem rather awkward. Keep in mind that I am a roped shoulders type of guy.
     
  11. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Well-Known Member

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    What is the advantage of a "spalla camicia?" Manton's article on AAAC clearly delineates the advantages of a Neapolitan shoulder: freedom of arm movement. So other than cosmetic and that "it's just how some Neapolitan tailors construct their jacket shoulders", is it worth the potential trouble to go through the exercise? If your aim to to "tip off" other clothing connoisseurs that you have a genuine bespoke/MTM Neopolitan garment, I truly wonder how many can tell the difference other than requesting that you remove your jacket and let it be examined.
     
  12. EL72

    EL72 Well-Known Member

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    Being in Toronto as well, I am curious about which tailor you are referring to. Care to share this info?
     
  13. Ranjeev

    Ranjeev Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the same boat as EL72 and would like to find out who the tailor in question is.
     
  14. FCS

    FCS Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider, have you seen this in person? Tastes are subjective but the ones I've seen are not something I would get. The sleeve looks sloppy for lack of a better word. For my taste it makes the overall look of the suit seem rather awkward. Keep in mind that I am a roped shoulders type of guy.

    Yes, I have one, albeit a RTW jacket. And it is slightly roped as well.
     
  15. FCS

    FCS Well-Known Member

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    Show him a pic and ask him. While that shoulder is one of the hallmarks of Neapolitan tailoring, it is not exclusive to Naples. Tailors all over Italy know how to do it. Two of the tailors who do it well in NYC are not Neapolitan, though at least one of them learned it from a Neapolitan.

    Thanks Manton, I'll discuss this further with him. Good to hear that you know some non-Neapolitan tailors doing it.
     
  16. Earthmover

    Earthmover Well-Known Member

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    As a related question, what's the difference between a giacca camicia and a spalla camicia? Is there a difference at all? I seem to recall a long-ago discussion Manton had with Giona Grata (sp?) where it was referred to as a giacca camicia meaning "shirt shoulder". Just curious. Thanks!
     
  17. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Giaca camicia = shirt jacket. Spalla camicia = shirt shoulder. Basically, with the former, the whole thing is cut and sewn like a shirt. With later, only the shoulder is; the rest is cut and sewn like a tailored jacket.
     
  18. Earthmover

    Earthmover Well-Known Member

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    Giaca camicia = shirt jacket. Spalla camicia = shirt shoulder. Basically, with the former, the whole thing is cut and sewn like a shirt. With later, only the shoulder is; the rest is cut and sewn like a tailored jacket.

    Ah. Excellent. Thank you for that explanation.
     
  19. Hartmann

    Hartmann Well-Known Member

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    Being in Toronto as well, I am curious about which tailor you are referring to. Care to share this info?

    I third this sentiment. Care to share FCS?
     
  20. GQgeek

    GQgeek Well-Known Member

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    So I am commissioning a suit with this tailor for the first time. While I believe that he is capable of producing high-quality hand-made products, his pedigree is not Neapolitan and I'm interested to get a suit with some Neapolitan traits, especially having the spalla camicia shoulder. Would it be prudent to try that? For whatever it's worth, he's used to apprentice under Caraceni in Milan a long, long time ago and his 'house style' is more toward soft-tailoring, although definitely not as soft as the 'classical' Neapolitan's.

    To avoid confusion, I'm using the term spalla camicia as explained by this article from Manton:
    http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/T...anShoulder.htm


    I'm curious as to what his name is. I assume he's in Toronto?
     

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