1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Cars We Drive!

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Bert1568, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,672
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Location:
    Knee deep in curds
    Foo- the "economy" issue used to be true but is now largely myth. Edmunds and others have written on it of late. Two reasons: in the US at least most don't drive them economically. They rev high, thrash, or just shift at the wrong time. And today, the new automatics are smaller, lighter and more economical than ever before. With joe average behind the wheel, the chances are better than ever that the auto trans might be better.

     
  2. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,592
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Southern California
    I'm curious how manual purists feel about manual gearboxes that do the engine blip for you when you downshift. Okay or corruption?
     
  3. HRoi

    HRoi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,796
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    I'm sure they're viewed with contempt by those who have learned to heel-and-toe (or heal-and-toe, as the kids are wont to say) properly. Myself, I kind of suck at heel and toeing (need more practice and it's not the kind of thing you can practice on a public street) so I can see how it makes track driving with a manual more accessible to more people.

    I also suppose that it prevents drivetrain wear by people who never rev match when downshifting. But mostly I suspect that car makers realized people found the automatic throttle blipping on DCT's cool, so they put it onto the manuals
     
  4. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,235
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    I don't get how people don't rev match while down shifting. To me, it's almost a sacrosanct requirement when driving stick.. It's terrible for the transmission not to, not to mention plain uncomfortable with the jerking motion at the lower gears.

    *scratches head*
     
  5. Blackhood

    Blackhood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,904
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Most people simply don't need to do it. If you're breaking so hard that your speed is dropping at a pace that requires you to select a low gear be yore you hit your corner then you're probably driving too aggressively to be safe.

    If you're on a track it's a different matter but the number of track-drivers in any given city numbers in the hundreds while the street driers number in the millions.
     
  6. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,235
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Well I tend to downshift in anticipation before braking so I have a different driving style. The one you're describing is just plain boring.
     
  7. HRoi

    HRoi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,796
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    also, if carmakers were serious about making manuals more accessible to more people, they would focus on creating a device that prevents the car from stalling when getting underway from a standing (or hilly) stop. that's the number one fear of (novice) manual drivers.

    but i guess they have realized that their market consists more of the people who want to sound like Ayrton Senna while they're downshifting to take the turn into Winn Dixie, hence this throttle blipping device.
     
  8. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,235
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    

    I would hope hill brake-assist would suffice for these drivers.

    also, the only car i know of that has automatic rev-matching is the nissan 350/370. Are there any others? I'd be surprised to find it in the higher-end sports cars.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  9. Find Finn

    Find Finn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,358
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    People could just learn how to use the clutch, it's not that hard.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. whiteslashasian

    whiteslashasian Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,809
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    

    Or the parking brake trick if you're THAT BAD on hills.
     
  11. zippyh

    zippyh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,369
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle-ish

    I believe teh Foo was also referring to the relatively high purchase price of the auto-manaul option and high maintenance costs when he was talking about economy.


    The new 911 manual has rev-matching.

    Subaru, VW, and I think the Fiat 500 have hill holder feature in the US.
    For some reason, I think VW has it on their DSG too.
     
  12. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,235
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    

    That the 911 has it genuinely shocks me. Wtf?
     
  13. GusW

    GusW Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,128
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    I was in the Porsche dealer yesterday. They had a new Boxster S on the floor in white. $77K. It looked like a 911 and a Lotus had mated. Impressive looking and quite a change from previous editions.

    Next to it was a 911. $112K.

    Who says there is no inflation?
     
  14. bawlin

    bawlin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,958
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    I hate to admit that I love the new Boxster more than the 991, which to me looks like a bloated piece of shit. And I'm a die-hard 911 guy.
     
  15. David23

    David23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    84
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    I think the new Cayman S is currently the best looking of the bunch.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. bawlin

    bawlin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,958
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    ^ Sorry, I meant the Cayman. What a stunner.
     
  17. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,592
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Southern California
    Many BMWs also have the manual rev matching feature these days. 5 series for sure, and maybe even the latest 3/4s.

    I heel-toe out of habit on the street, and I mostly drive between 2 and 4K RPMs. It's not just for turns, but also stop-and-go traffic. And I'm not racing up to a stopped car and braking hard. I look far ahead and am trying to maintain the average speed of the traffic flow. That also means maintaining at least a 2-4 second gap in front of me. The downshifts happen when I drop below 2K RPMs.

    With lighter brake pressure on the street compared to very heavy brake pressure on-track, you have to alter your technique a bit. Most people find that it's easier to learn at first with heavier brake pressure, because it's easier to blip the throttle more when the brake pedal is lower. One way to get the feel of it is to just blip your throttle while you're stopped with your foot on the brake. You want to think of a quick stabbing motion when you do it. Don't ride the gas pedal especially with many of today's manuals having very heavy flywheels.

    The street is actually the best place to learn. There's too much going on during a track session to figure that stuff out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  18. dah328

    dah328 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Cost and longevity are two other big factors in the choice of SMG vs. manual. I think the jury is still out on the longevity of SMGs (though I shudder to think what the repair cost on one of those could be), but a properly maintained manual transmission will easily go hundreds of thousands of miles. There probably aren't too many manufacturers left who care very much about longevity beyond the warranty period on their cars, though. We small-timers who drive high mileage cars still appreciate it, though.
     
  19. whiteslashasian

    whiteslashasian Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,809
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    

    Manual transmissions are generally far less expensive to repair, refurbish, or replace than any kind of auto box.
     
  20. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,672
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Location:
    Knee deep in curds
    

    Yeah- like the woman driving next to me a while back with a phone on her shoulder- soda and cig in one hand, hair brush in the other and somehow managing to shift in stop/go traffic... :fu:
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by