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Carlos Santos Shoes - Feedback & Appreciation

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VRaivio, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. VRaivio

    VRaivio Well-Known Member

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    There's very little info on Carlos Santos online. Someone must know about the price-quality ratio, quality of leathers and finishing + different lines. Any takers for this info challenge?
     
  2. meister

    meister Well-Known Member

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    WhoTF is Carlos Santos amigo?
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Claus

    Claus Well-Known Member

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    Carlos Santos is a brand by Portugese shoe maker Zarco lda. Apperently, it's the name of their CEO. The previous brand used to be Mack James. According to Internet rumours, the French brand Loding belongs to the company as well.
     
  4. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  5. Zapasman

    Zapasman Well-Known Member

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  6. VRaivio

    VRaivio Well-Known Member

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    It took around four years since the first message, but Carlos Santos has finally landed on Styleforum (and Sweden as well).

    @Leaves likely has more info on the construction and materials?
     
  7. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Well-Known Member

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    That's what the 'Parisian Gentleman' has to say about Carlos Santos shoes.


    It corresponds to what I have heard about the company's chaotic administration.

    I did see the shoes once (shown by the agent) at a German retailer, who was considering buying the collection. (They did not, in the end.)

    Hopefully the company has solved their problems by now, otherwise the guys in Stockholm might jump out of the Edward Green frying pan into the Carlos Santos fire.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  8. Zapasman

    Zapasman Well-Known Member

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    This company shares much more info in this articles (just with pics) than most of the Northamptonshire/Almansa shoemakers. I hope you can translate the article with gloogle?.

    Currently most of these good benchgrade GY shoemakers (250-450 USD) use similar materials and construction methods; patinas, lasts, special models and combos, fiddle and beveled waist, blind outsoles and QC can make the difference for shoeaficionados.

    Carlos Santos has a very competitive quality/price ratio compare to others, especially english makers. People at the other side of the Pyrenees do not know how many good shoes are being produce here for well known international brands.; expertise is there, we produce great materials and there are quite a few good taneries and raw materials.

    I wish Carlos Santos and Skoak all the best.
     
  9. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Well-Known Member

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    If is designed by him, the doesn´t deserves to be on Styleforum or on any serious place devoted to dressing properly but only on other sections, and if is allegedly shilled by the frequent bloggers I expose all the time by saying things as;

    the famous Roman styled from Rome, Brioni, is Neapolitan ( he said so for real),

    or that Luca Rubinacci is tailor,

    or that Lino Ilelucci was also Neapolitan (that blogger said so and I got the screenshots stored), you can read my mind about.

    On the same blog you can read surreal and clueless things as;

    I recommend red shoes for office, yes red as Ronald McDonald does (not burgundy). Never seen that on any office and hope any ever did. My favorite color is new black, what color is that? He misunderstands the sentence brown is the new black. Yes, a blogger.

    But the worst of it is that he dared to write a book about how to dress and some people (only a few) takes him seriously.

    The French one didn´t got the dignity to publish what I wrote as shirtmaker on his article about shirts with bs as ;

    A good shirt has unfused collars ( personal taste that doesn´t gives higher quality and are totally off for business)

    A good shirt has to have the last buttonhole horizontal ( why, because he says so?, then why not diagonal then?)

    When I translated into Italian his article and forwarded to the best Neapolitan shirtmaking houses and high tailoring schools, the laughs about this Parisian were listened on Hawai.

    Normal this bloggers are insulting me all the time, because I expose all their lies all the time to help innocent people (victms) to take them seriously, as any of the rest or the industry does.

    Should be a law that would prevent fake articles to be published and those pages with lies taken down by law.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  10. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    I can provide some additional info. I have visited the factory and met the people in the administration, the workers on the floor, Carlos Santos himself and his daughter Ana who is the sales director. I have yet to see any signs of "chaos" in the administrative department. Actually, the factory was neatly and meticulously organized, clean and structured - unlike some other shoe factories I've visited in England. This is the first impression however, time will tell the truth, I'm not a guy with patience for lack of organization, I'm Swedish after all. :) I will say that the reason we've been slow to pick up on this brand is that we have had a hard time getting a feel for Carlos Santos as there are so many different types of lines they produce, and also they produce a huge variety of private label stuff and fashion forward stuff that does not interest me. However, they are not accepting new private label clients anymore as they will focus on their own Carlos Santos lines now.

    I won't comment further on an earlier post that derails into some kind of bashing of people that have little or no relevance or connection to Carlos Santos. It's off topic in my humble opinion. The firm has two full time pattern designers employed, so they have full capacity to create whatever creative expression their clients wants or needs - if a client sends a crazy fashion designer there to create a line, the result will be accordingly. Send a Swedish shoe store owner with a flair for classic footwear and the result will be completely different, as you guys will notice in the future. Many french shoe brands produce their products at Carlos Santos - some are transparent with it - some are not. A quick Google search should help anyone who's curious. We have decided to focus on the standard Goodyear Welted line only, which is an open channel sole stitch construction. They also have a closed channel version but the price point is exactly like Carmina which did not fit into our price tier strategy. Carlos Santos also has a "Handcrafted" series which looks bloody nice, but we're sticking to one line to avoid confusion.

    Here's an X-post (edited) from our thread:

    [​IMG]

    Carlos Santos
    Founded in 1942, Carlos Santos is a maker that carries its history proudly. Carlos Santos (pictured above with myself and Carlos' daughter Ana) started working at the age of 14 in this small shoe factory in the rural town São João da Madeira close to Porto, Portugal. Today the factory carries his name. Carlos Santos shoes by Skoaktiebolaget are all Goodyear welted and made in Portugal.

    We have been very impressed with what we have seen from Carlos Santos and their range of Goodyear welted shoes. We will start our collaboration with offering twelve styles: six core styles and six styles available in the Carlos Santos Patina Service. This spring we will add a dozen new styles from Carlos Santos. We also have some very nice design collaborations underway, so stay tuned for more interesting stuff from this very promising maker. We feel this price/quality ratio is hard to compete with.

    Carlos Santos Patina Service
    Skoaktiebolaget offers a Patina Service through Carlos Santos. This is a unique way of putting your own touch on a pair of shoes. Selecting from a range of different patinas on the style of your choice (six styles currently available) the shoe itself will bear your stylistic signature. The delivery time for Carlos Santos Patina Service is about four to six weeks. All shoes in the Patina Service are made of uncolored crust that is then hand colored.

    [​IMG]


    Materials (applies to the line Skoaktiebolaget carries)
    Carlos Santos sources most of their leathers from Tannerie d'Annonay and other French and Italian tanneries, just like many other makers in the premium Goodyear welted segment. They use leather insoles, full cork filling, leather board heel stiffeners, celastic toe stiffeners. This makes them above par compared to many other makers in the same price segment.

    Finish
    I’ve been very impressed with the Carlos Santos finish, both on the Patina Service shoes and their regular calf shoes. It’s definitely way up there and above par compared to a lot of the makers in a similar price segment. Pictured pair (a sample from our upcoming spring collection) came like this, we have not added any additional polishing or burnishing. Actually, none of the shoes you have seen us post lately have been extra polished by us, the standard finish is impressive. The waist is nicely and slightly beveled.

    [​IMG]

    Some pictures from the factory
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    Carlos Santos Swatches – GMTOs requires 8
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    For those of you who wants to read an impartial review of the Carlos Santos Goodyear welted line, you can read Shoegazing’s post by following this link. http://shoegazing.se/english/2015/09/06/review-carlos-santos-7201-braga-cognac/

    Some additional pictures of Carlos Santos Goodyear Welted line:
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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
    6 people like this.
  11. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Well-Known Member

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    Deep [​IMG] here, not a humble opinion but the truth. Specially from one who sells them, but out of the proper and indicated affiliate threads. Incredible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  12. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sarto.
    I can see where you are coming from with regards to the issue of spam. But perhaps this is just a little harsh here.
    @Leaves runs a reputable shoe retail business and I do respect how he conducts it, and also how he treats his customers (I'm one of them) and his online interactions.
    Just the same, I respect you for how you take pride in your craft (tie and shirt making), and your sense of integrity, in exposing tailors or people in the industry who are not honest and use shill bloggers.
    Taking Leaves' post in context, this thread has been dead for about 4 years for lack of information on Carlos Santos, until it was once again revived as SkoaB has only recently started carrying this maker. An earlier poster on this thread had also directly asked Leaves for information on CS and he responded accordingly. I do understand this post is outside of his affiliate thread but being a retailer that carries CS he definitely has information and insight that might interest the other posters on the thread.
    Styleforum, to a large extent, is about sharing, and I don't think his post really goes beyond that.
    Moreover, not that I'm overly singing his praises (I'm just stating the obvious), almost everyone already knows who Leaves and SkoaB are, and the makers he carries.
    In any case, I see you both as friends, and I hope the thread can move past this, in the spirit of sharing.
     
    3 people like this.
  13. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Well-Known Member

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    Leaves basically said Carlos Santos produces a better product than their price. Further he cites Shoegazing, which also says pretty much the same: better than their price. Wouldn't go as far as calling it spam.
     
  14. Verrihappy

    Verrihappy Well-Known Member

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    Perfecting the art of shilling?
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Newcomer

    Newcomer Well-Known Member

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    For what it is worth, I just ordered a pair of the black swan neck oxfords from Skoak. I will give my thoughts on them when they arrive.

    I am always looking for a new pair of kicks in the low ~$300 price range, and these seem to fit the bill. I rather stupidly neglected to jump aboard the Carmina band wagon before the price hike (I only have two pair), but these seem to fit the bill. Again, I'll compare them with the usual suspects, i.e., Carmina, AE, Alden, Cheaney, etc., and then cross-reference them to some of the higher end stuff I have kicking around, i.e., Vass, EG, G&G, etc.

    I am just excited to have (potentially) another good-value buy. I remember in 2009, I was able to purchase EG, G&G, etc. for around $600-700. It is amazing how fast a lot of the brands have become far more difficult to obtain.
     
  16. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Well-Known Member

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    The rules are to get followed by everybody. I got nothing against anyone, just follow the rules or try to do, on the contrary, what would say if any other, not me, would put pics of what he is selling all around the forum with even his own face as has happened [​IMG]. You know what would happen, I know what will happen... Let´s leave that there, as Bart Simpson said to Lisa on a chapter.

    Best wishes
     
  17. Newcomer

    Newcomer Well-Known Member

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    Just a preliminary try-on while at work! Will give my thoughts later.

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Newcomer

    Newcomer Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts on Carlos Santos.

    Alright, so I received the Carlos Santos Swan Neck Oxfords yesterday, in black, which are on the 187 Last. My first instincts were - to be perfectly honest - yikes, these are too pointy for my tastes. I unboxed my G&Gs which also came yesterday, and compared them length-wise. They were surprisingly similar in length.

    So I tried them on, stood up, and was rather surprised how nice they looked on the foot. The last reminds me of the Carmina Inca - which I have pictured below in brown suede. However, the 187 is a bit more chiseled than the Carmina Inca - the latter is very round and almondy. I am still warming up to the 187 last. The shoes are fairly narrow. And there is a good amount of extension. I think they are keepers as far as I am concerned.

    It is likely that the 187 looks more extended than it is due to the placement of the toe cap. If you compare the CS with the G&G, the toe cap on the CS is a good half an inch closer to the vamp, which serves to exacerbate the already extended last. However, on the foot this was not noticeable at all. And this is something that WOULD stand out to me.

    As someone else mentioned, the toe cap stiching is stylistically closer to the vamp to balance the swan neck. I am not sure if it is perfectly harmonious with the last, but in this price segment, I think it does an above average job (objectively speaking).

    First impressions. The shoes are comfortable, if a bit stiff. The finishing is very neat, especially considering the price. The last is narrow, but it fit my foot nicely. I think that if you had to size up, then maybe this last is not for you. I have no qualms with the finishing whatsoever - it seems very similar to Carmina. The shoes come in a nice box, with nice bags, and a shoe horn. The leather quality is about the same as Carmina in my opinion. With that said, Carmina does have the benefit of closed channel stitching (which I really, really do not care about, TBH, on $325.00 shoes). I think that Carmina feels a bit more refined, especially the last and design. But then again, I prefer this last to the Inca, and this is the most elongated last that Skoak offers in Carlos Santos, so I am probably not being fair.

    All in all, they feel far nicer than $325.00 shoes (with the way shoes are priced today), and I think they are a great buy in the value segment. However, pre-price increase, I think Carmina was a better option - but then again, we all know that the $330.00 Carmina's were too good to be true. However, they were a better option by a very slim margin.

    Carlos Santos comes in a nice package, they are well finished, they seem to be on nicely shaped lasts, and they feel nice and sturdy. Will likely buy another pair.

    As far as sizing:

    I am a UK9E in C&J on the 348, UK9 (stardard width) in Carmina on the Rain, Inca, etc., US10D Allen Edmonds, UK9.5/10 D or E in E&G in the 606, 82, and 888, UK9.5E in G&G, 42.5/43 in Vass F Last (I have a small instep, which is my problem with Vass), 43/43.5 in Vass U Last.

    Hope all this helps!

    Last comparison - G&G and CS.

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    Last comparison - CS, Carmina Inca, and C&J 348.

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    3 people like this.
  19. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for that input @Newcomer, I hope this helps people considering Carlos Santos.

    Here's some more data and feedback in regards of lasts and fit, with references to other premium shoemaker lasts.


    Carlos Santos lasts Patrik (@Leaves)


    Carlos Santos - 234: UK 11
    Generous last with plenty room across the instep, great arch support. For me it fits very close to Carmina Rain, maybe a hair wider. Honestly one of the most comfortable RTW lasts I’ve tried.

    Carlos Santos - 160: UK 11
    Also a quite generous last despite the sleek look. A bit more narrow than the 234 last and Carmina Rain.

    Carlos Santos - 187: UK 11.5
    I had to size up half a size from 234 and 160. Still, not an optimal fit for my wide-ish feet. It's slim but not as slim as Carmina Simpson (which I have a problem even getting into). It's however longer than Simpson. Not an optimal last if you have a wide foot or high instep. Better for people with slim to normal width feet.

    Reference lasts Patrik

    Carmina
    Carmina Rain: UK 11 - good fit, the best of all the Carmina lasts for me
    Carmina Soller: UK 11 - slight heel slippage
    Carmina Inca: UK 11.5 – not a perfect fit for me
    Carmina Forest: UK 11.5 - decent fit, the instep could be roomier for a better fit. I use UK 12 for boots in order to accommodate thicker socks.
    Carmina Simpson: Could probably squeeze into a UK 12 but in all honesty, not a good last for me, I avoid it because of my wide-ish feet and high instep

    Edward Green
    184: UK 11.5 E
    202: UK 11.5 F bordering on E, not an optimal fit for me
    606: UK 11.5 F bordering on E, not an optimal fit for me
    82: UK 11.5 F - good fit for me, best of all EG lasts
    888: UK 11.5 F

    Gaziano & Girling
    KN14: UK 11.5 F
    MH71: UK 11.5 F - very good fit, best fitting of all G&G lasts
    GG06: UK 11.5 F
    DG70: UK 11.5 F
    TG73: UK 12 F - not an optimal fit for me

    Enzo Bonafé
    Enzo Bonafé 74945: UK 11.5 – very good fit, among the best of any RTW last I’ve tried
    Enzo Bonafé 363: UK 11.5 – heel slippage, not an optimal last for me
    Enzo Bonafé 363MOD: UK 11.5 (better than the normal 363 last but still some minor heel slippage, although no heel slippage if it's a high boot like a Button Boot or a Balmoral boot)

    Saint Crispin’s
    Classic last: 11.5 G/F – I’m between F and G and now have a personalized last

    Other brands:
    John Lobb 7000: UK 11F – can wear UK 11E but this is very snug
    Alden Barrie: US 11.5D – too roomy


    Carlos Santos lasts Oliver (@Dannefalk)

    160: UK 8
    187: 8.5
    234: UK 8

    Reference lasts Oliver

    Carmina
    Rain: UK 8
    Simson: UK 8.5

    Gaziano & Girling
    MH71: 8.5 E (slightly narrow, could take wider width as well)
    TG73:8.5 E (slightly narrow, could take wider width as well)

    Saint Crispin’s
    Classic: 8 G - Best fitting RTW last and size for me

    Enzo Bonafè
    946 – 8.5 (a bit roomy over the instep, slightly long)
    363 – 8.5 (a bit roomy over the instep)


    Top down view of some CS lasts.
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  20. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Well-Known Member

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    it seems someone got his freebies on the mail for what I am reading.[​IMG][​IMG]
     

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