Cameras: Help me decide

[whoopee]

The smaller sensor effectively extends the lenses 1.5x - so my beloved 50mm Noct becomes a rather less usable 75mm, and the best effective 35mm lens is not fast enough. The 6.1 megapixel quality doesn't approach that of film, too, but I could accept that if all my lenses stayed the same.

I agree, the VF of the Bessa R2 and the RD-1 are pretty bright. The former was one of my favourite cameras, if it wasn't so damn loud and flimsy I would have kept it. Simillar to the modern Ms, which I also don't think are that great compared to the older models.

The rangefinder isn't accurate enough for use with superfast lenses, but I guess that's okay since usuable superfast lenses are hardly available given the field of view correcton. Still that's what I find most appealing about Leica glass - small, sharp, superfast lenses - and they are not quite at home with the Epson. I wish they were, because the lack of a truly viable digital M has turned me off to shooting in general.

 

[aarghh]

Originally Posted by whoopee

The smaller sensor effectively extends the lenses 1.5x - so my beloved 50mm Noct becomes a rather less usable 75mm, and the best effective 35mm lens is not fast enough. The 6.1 megapixel quality doesn't approach that of film, too, but I could accept that if all my lenses stayed the same.

I agree, the VF of the Bessa R2 and the RD-1 are pretty bright. The former was one of my favourite cameras, if it wasn't so damn loud and flimsy I would have kept it. Simillar to the modern Ms, which I also don't think are that great compared to the older models.

The rangefinder isn't accurate enough for use with superfast lenses, but I guess that's okay since usuable superfast lenses are hardly available given the field of view correcton. Still that's what I find most appealing about Leica glass - small, sharp, superfast lenses - and they are not quite at home with the Epson. I wish they were, because the lack of a truly viable digital M has turned me off to shooting in general.

Agreed on both counts. The APS size conversion is a pain - it renders all lenses longer, and the lack of fast super-wides compounds that.

I'm told that Voigtlander has some external viewfinders for the superwides - have you used those?

 

[Mute]

OTOH, APS is great if most of your photos are in the long end of the focal spectrum.

 

[Brian SD]

Originally Posted by aarghh

Both are pretty bad cameras for SLRs - the viewfinders are terrible. Take a look at the KM-7D.

Really, its amazing how many people underestimate the importance of the viewfinder. If you're getting an SLR, get the best viewfinder you can - otherwise, the Sony H5 and Panasonic FZ-50 are probably better value for money.

The Nikon D80 has a bigger, brighter viewfinder (much moreso than the D70s or the D200).

I've been leaning towards the Nikon myself, particularly because of the nice viewfinder and the ergonomics of the camera build. I'll probably buy the 50mm 1.8 or 35mm 2.0 lens to go with it for now.

Labelking, that EPSON is no way no how... $3k is way out of my range, aside from the fact that I've heard (from whoopee as well as other sources) that the Leica lens is no better on the EPSON body than a Sigma lens anyway. I'm an EPSON fan myself, but can't consider them for the camera.

 

[aarghh]

Originally Posted by Mute

OTOH, APS is great if most of your photos are in the long end of the focal spectrum.

True - but most people who use Leica type RFs are more interested in the wide end. Rangefinders get quite painful to use at the longer end...but for SLRs used for wildlife work, APS helps.

I would like to see an RD-1 like camera featuring a full-sized sensor with 8 stops of dynamic range. If they can figure out a way to project a live histogram onto the VF, I'll buy the day its out.

 

[aarghh]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

The Nikon D80 has a bigger, brighter viewfinder (much moreso than the D70s or the D200).

I've been leaning towards the Nikon myself, particularly because of the nice viewfinder and the ergonomics of the camera build. I'll probably buy the 50mm 1.8 or 35mm 2.0 lens to go with it for now.

Labelking, that EPSON is no way no how... $3k is way out of my range, aside from the fact that I've heard (from whoopee as well as other sources) that the Leica lens is no better on the EPSON body than a Sigma lens anyway. I'm an EPSON fan myself, but can't consider them for the camera.

I guess I'm spoilt - after using a Contax Aria with a 50/1.4 lens for years, I like a viewfinder to be really bright. But you're right, if it came to the two of those, I would probably plump for the D80 myself.

Have you looked at the Sony Alpha? I haven't handled it myself, but I've heard good reports about it.

 

[Brian SD]

Originally Posted by aarghh

I guess I'm spoilt - after using a Contax Aria with a 50/1.4 lens for years, I like a viewfinder to be really bright. But you're right, if it came to the two of those, I would probably plump for the D80 myself. Have you looked at the Sony Alpha? I haven't handled it myself, but I've heard good reports about it.
That's incredibly tempting. Especially since I can land it with the kit lens for $750. Reading reviews isn't helping because the Sony, Nikon and Canon are all highly praised. The cool thing about the SONY is that my pictures will be a little different feeling from the rest of the classes (the entire class is using Rebel XT's pretty much, probably 1 or 2 Nikons). I like that idea.

 

[imageWIS]

That Sony looks great. It is tempting...although you can find a lot more lenses for a Nikon.

Jon.

 

[whoopee]

The Contax SLRs were great. Too bad they screwed up their DSLR entry; the lenses are superb.

I don't know much about the Sony, but the poor lens availability for Sony compared to Nikon and Canon are a huge reason not to buy into that system, IMHO.

 

[Brian SD]

Originally Posted by whoopee

The Contax SLRs were great. Too bad they screwed up their DSLR entry; the lenses are superb.

I don't know much about the Sony, but the poor lens availability for Sony compared to Nikon and Canon are a huge reason not to buy into that system, IMHO.

Definitely a bit of a hang-up there. I don't have the cash to go buying tons of lenses, but it would be nice to have a large selection of Sigma and Nikkor lenses instead of Sony's ultra-proprietary selection of alpha-branded lenses.

I'm still going back and forth though. I'll probably end up with the Nikon because I don't feel comfortable being an early adopter to Sony's new tech (even though, ironically, Sony manufactures Nikon's sensor).

I'm basically completely new to photography outside of personal use. I'm learning the basics, essentially, because as a graphic designer I'll have to hire and work with other photographers, and I should know what these guys are talking about and working with.

 

[Mute]

Off the bat, I'm a Nikon user. Having said that, I think your choice will depend entirely on what type of photgrapher you are, the type of pictures you'll take and how involve you plan on getting in photography.

The D80 has a deeper set of features both in terms of in camera functions and in available accessories. That is also why it will most likely cost about $250+ more than the Canon. If you just want to take the occasional family or vacation snapshot, than truthfully either camera will serve you well. If OTOH you plan to grow in your photo skills, the D80 will give you more control over what you can do with the camera. Either way, you should try out both camera before making a decision. One of the main reasons I went with Nikon is because I like the way their cameras feel in the hands much more than Canon. I also find their controls more intuitive and quicker to access and make changes. Of course others feel the same about Canon.

I think once you had a chance to try both cameras, you'll lean towards one over the other. That should be your choice.

 

[Brian SD]

Originally Posted by Mute

Off the bat, I'm a Nikon user. Having said that, I think your choice will depend entirely on what type of photgrapher you are, the type of pictures you'll take and how involve you plan on getting in photography. The D80 has a deeper set of features both in terms of in camera functions and in available accessories. That is also why it will most likely cost about $250+ more than the Canon. If you just want to take the occasional family or vacation snapshot, than truthfully either camera will serve you well. If OTOH you plan to grow in your photo skills, the D80 will give you more control over what you can do with the camera. Either way, you should try out both camera before making a decision. One of the main reasons I went with Nikon is because I like the way their cameras feel in the hands much more than Canon. I also find their controls more intuitive and quicker to access and make changes. Of course others feel the same about Canon. I think once you had a chance to try both cameras, you'll lean towards one over the other. That should be your choice.
I messed around a little bit. I much prefer the way Nikon's fits in the hand (though I looked at the d200 and d70 as the d80 isn't available yet). Nice big viewfinder on the d200 as well, which I heard is the same vf as on the d80. I may end up getting a d200 since, surprisingly, it's even cheaper than the d80 as far as what's available now.

 

[Mute]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

I messed around a little bit. I much prefer the way Nikon's fits in the hand (though I looked at the d200 and d70 as the d80 isn't available yet). Nice big viewfinder on the d200 as well, which I heard is the same vf as on the d80.

I may end up getting a d200 since, surprisingly, it's even cheaper than the d80 as far as what's available now.

Personally, I would do the same if cost was not an object. The D200 is an excellent camera.

 

[aarghh]

Originally Posted by whoopee

The Contax SLRs were great. Too bad they screwed up their DSLR entry; the lenses are superb.

I don't know much about the Sony, but the poor lens availability for Sony compared to Nikon and Canon are a huge reason not to buy into that system, IMHO.

Yes, but I'm keeping my eyes on this system - I think Sony is pretty serious about their commitment to a lens lineup, involving both Zeiss and what they've inherited from the K-M buyout.

Hopefully, they'll also come out with an adapter for the manual C/Y lenses - and I'll be able to use my Zeiss glass on a dSLR.

 

[Luc-Emmanuel]

Sony are "rebadged" minolta, which they bought a few months ago.

!luc