1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Bread Thread

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by why, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. GQgeek

    GQgeek Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,933
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Location:
    Canuckistan
    ^^ Bubbles are from yeast's interaction with the starches in the dough. Hard to say precisely why your bubbles aren't bigger. Maybe you didn't let the dough sit long enough before baking? Maybe you didn't mix and knead it thoroughly enough? Maybe the flour mix was off? I dunno. Crust is a function of many things, including dough composition, baking time, scoring technique, and so forth. Judging from your loaves in the pics, your bread looks a little undercooked. And your scoring patterns leave much to be desired. Consider the following: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/scoring
    I'm a newb, but bubbles are from CO2 released by the yeast. When you're forming the loaf (after the main kneading), if you're too hard on it, you'll force the c02 out and end up with a tighter crumb, which you don't want for certain types of bread. You have to be very gentle with it. That baguette, if intended to be french, looks totally wrong, not just the score and look of the crust, but the texture of the bread itself. I'm picking up my type 55 flour at post office tomorrow so i'll probably give it a try this weekend if my baking stone arrives.
     
  2. KJT

    KJT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    ^^

    Bubbles are from yeast's interaction with the starches in the dough. Hard to say precisely why your bubbles aren't bigger. Maybe you didn't let the dough sit long enough before baking? Maybe you didn't mix and knead it thoroughly enough? Maybe the flour mix was off? I dunno.

    Crust is a function of many things, including dough composition, baking time, scoring technique, and so forth. Judging from your loaves in the pics, your bread looks a little undercooked. And your scoring patterns leave much to be desired. Consider the following:

    http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/scoring


    Thanks, that's actually very helpful. I didn't do it right at all... [​IMG]

    I let the dough sit for 2 hours, then shaped and let it sit for another 45 minutes. Oh well. It still tastes good.
     
  3. KJT

    KJT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    I'm a newb, but bubbles are from CO2 released by the yeast. When you're forming the loaf (after the main kneading), if you're too hard on it, you'll force the c02 out and end up with a tighter crumb, which you don't want for certain types of bread. You have to be very gentle with it.

    That baguette, if intended to be french, looks totally wrong, not just the score and look of the crust, but the texture of the bread itself. I'm picking up my type 55 flour at post office tomorrow so i'll probably give it a try this weekend if my baking stone arrives.


    It was intended to be french. I followed a recipe to a t - but may have been a bit harsh on the loaf when moving it around.

    Please do post your results.
     
  4. GQgeek

    GQgeek Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,933
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Location:
    Canuckistan
    It was intended to be french. I followed a recipe to a t - but may have been a bit harsh on the loaf when moving it around.

    Please do post your results.


    I will.

    What book were you using btw?

    I'm going to be using the bread baker's apprentice. Were you using the right type of flour? Did you mist the oven and put a pan of water in the bottom? Did it rise overnight? Did you use a pre-ferment? did you use a baking stone? Scoring the bread almost parallel with loaf isn't just a cosmetic thing. You should definitely buy the BBA if you're serious about bread. It explains every step and the reasons for doing things a certain way very well.
     
  5. henrikc

    henrikc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    411
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Location:
    Norway
    I attempted a version of Henrik's recipe today using only whole wheat flour and steel-cut oatmeal. The bread turned out decent -- respectable for a first attempt -- but critically flawed in two respects. First, I didn't oil or spray or flour (or whatever) the bottom of the pot, thereby ensuring that the loaf would burn/stick to the bottom. [​IMG] Second, I don't think I cooked the dough long enough. It ended up with a nice crust, but a very dense and almost cakelike interior. This was probably as much a result of the dough's composition as its cooking time, but even still, the bread could have stood another 10 minutes or so in the oven.

    Same thing happened with my first bread, but I think that was caused by the pot being brand new. Just make sure that it's properly pre-heated, and when it's done it's just a matter of turning the pot over, letting the bread slide out and enjoy. After preheating the pot I just fold the dough in with a spatula, and I never use any oil, flour or anything to keep it from sticking.

    Too bad about the dough. It's supposed to have a somewhat moist inside, but cakelike doesn't sound right at all. I would try to cook it for 5-10 minutes more with the cover on, and then 15 minutes (might even need 20 minutes) without the cover. I also found a recipe that uses no bread/all purpose flour, but no cast iron pot.
    http://noknead.com/uncategorized/no-...ead-recipe.php
     
  6. KJT

    KJT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    I will.

    What book were you using btw?

    I'm going to be using the bread baker's apprentice. Were you using the right type of flour? Did you mist the oven and put a pan of water in the bottom? Did it rise overnight? Did you use a pre-ferment? did you use a baking stone? Scoring the bread almost parallel with loaf isn't just a cosmetic thing. You should definitely buy the BBA if you're serious about bread. It explains every step and the reasons for doing things a certain way very well.


    No book - Michael Ruhlman's bread baking app + this post http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...&postcount=112

    I just had some time, felt like trying to make bread, and went ahead and did it.

    Flour: King Arthur unbleached bread flower

    Oven was wet, and poured boiling water into a cast iron skillet in the bottom. There was a lot of steam.

    I let it rise for ~2 hours, punched it down, let it rise another hour, rolled it out with a rolling pin (was this wrong - maybe this is where I squeezed out the air), formed into baguettes, then let rise another 45 minutes. So about 4 hours total.

    No pre-ferment.

    Used a pizza stone. I assume it's the same thing as a baking stone.

    Scoring: I didn't even think that maybe there was some functional reason to score the bread. Also, I just cut straight down.

    Maybe a baguette to start is a bit ambitious. I may try a boule next.
     
  7. Don Carlos

    Don Carlos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,527
    Joined:
    May 15, 2009
    No book - Michael Ruhlman's bread baking app + this post http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...&postcount=112

    I just had some time, felt like trying to make bread, and went ahead and did it.

    Flour: King Arthur unbleached bread flower

    Oven was wet, and poured boiling water into a cast iron skillet in the bottom. There was a lot of steam.

    I let it rise for ~2 hours, punched it down, let it rise another hour, rolled it out with a rolling pin (was this wrong - maybe this is where I squeezed out the air), formed into baguettes, then let rise another 45 minutes. So about 4 hours total.

    No pre-ferment.

    Used a pizza stone. I assume it's the same thing as a baking stone.

    Scoring: I didn't even think that maybe there was some functional reason to score the bread. Also, I just cut straight down.

    Maybe a baguette to start is a bit ambitious. I may try a boule next.


    Proper baguettes are very high-maintenance, and fairly high up the learning curve. I would start on boules or bâtards using similar dough to the dough you'd use for baguettes.
     
  8. jcusey

    jcusey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,802
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    King Arthur Flour runs and honest-to-God artisan bakery at their headquarters in Vermont, and they have a series of videos about the various steps in bread production recorded there and narrated by their bakery staff up on their website. I've found them very useful -- the shaping and scoring ones in particular taught me more about how to do it than lots of verbiage in lots of books.

    Speaking of books, my favorite bread book is Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes by Jeffrey Hamelman, the master baker who runs the KA bakery. It's more like a textbook for professional bakers, but I've found it excellent for home use.

    First try at making bread, turned out very tasty but I was a little disappointed in the crust and the size of the bubbles inside. The crust was too thin and not very "crusty". Any suggestions on how to get bigger bubbles? More yeast? Let it rise in it's final shape for longer? Either way, it was a good first try and I will be posting more.

    [​IMG]


    No book - Michael Ruhlman's bread baking app + this post http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...&postcount=112

    I just had some time, felt like trying to make bread, and went ahead and did it.

    Flour: King Arthur unbleached bread flower

    Oven was wet, and poured boiling water into a cast iron skillet in the bottom. There was a lot of steam.

    I let it rise for ~2 hours, punched it down, let it rise another hour, rolled it out with a rolling pin (was this wrong - maybe this is where I squeezed out the air), formed into baguettes, then let rise another 45 minutes. So about 4 hours total.

    No pre-ferment.

    Used a pizza stone. I assume it's the same thing as a baking stone.

    Scoring: I didn't even think that maybe there was some functional reason to score the bread. Also, I just cut straight down.

    Maybe a baguette to start is a bit ambitious. I may try a boule next.


    If I recall correctly, Ruhlman's ratio for bread calls for 60% hydration (5 parts flour to 3 parts water). That's not enough water to get the open crumb that you're looking for in baguettes. You really want something in the neighborhood of 65-67%. The shortage of water in your bread is exacerbated by using the KA bread flour -- the higher the protein content of the flour (KA bread flour has 12.7% protein), the more water it can take. Regular old KA AP flour works fine for most artisan-style bread. I pretty much just use the KA bread flour for things that need extra chewiness, like bialys.

    (Additionally, I think that you would probably improve your results by folding the dough an hour into the bulk fermentation -- see the KA mixing and folding video at the link above. You don't need to worry about de-gassing the dough while shaping. That's exactly what you're supposed to do, although using a rolling pin isn't the best way to do it.)

    I'm picking up my type 55 flour at post office tomorrow so i'll probably give it a try this weekend if my baking stone arrives.

    Are you getting the KA French-style flour or real Type 55 from France?
     
  9. JGP.

    JGP. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Well I finally made something today that I was really happy with. First time I was able to get some real air pockets, I think the key was using a starter that I prepared the night before. Ate this for dinner with some brie and fig spread, it was delicious. Fresh out of the oven: [​IMG] Slices to show texture: [​IMG] (I loosely followed this recipe if anyone wants to know)
     
  10. henrikc

    henrikc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    411
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Location:
    Norway
    Texture looks great, but the crust is a little too dark for my taste. Making a loaf right now, currently preheating the cast iron pot in the oven, and I think it's going to be a great one. Will post pictures afterwards. Edit: all right. [​IMG] [​IMG] Not so pleased about the texture, but the crust is super crunchy and delicious. I think I used slightly too much yeast, it smelled somewhat of yeast when I took it out, so that's a bummer. Anyways, I'm planning on using a slice or two as a side dish to my dinner tonight, I'm thinking buttering up one side with garlic butter and putting some cheese on the other side and grill them in the oven.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by