Accupuncture: Is it worth it?

[crazyquik]

Inspired by the massage thread, who's had accupuncture?

I have a (female) friend who's parents moved to Austrailia, and every time she goes there is this little Oriental guy that runs an accupuncture shop and she swears up and down how great it is. Other than that, I don't know anyone who's tried it, and would like some other opinions.

 

[Gradstudent78]

Free clinic in chicago for anyone that wants to give it a try. I have a friend that swears by it for helping with his back pain.

 

[Rambo]

There was a recent survey in Consumer Reports and more people reported relief from Acupuncture than everything other than PT. I've always wanted to try it but it's not cheap and I don't know of anybody who's worthwhile down here. If you find somebody with good references, and the problem is something that drugs/therapy can't seem to help with, why not give it a shot?

 

[turbozed]

Originally Posted by Rambo

There was a recent survey in Consumer Reports and more people reported relief from Acupuncture than everything other than PT. I've always wanted to try it but it's not cheap and I don't know of anybody who's worthwhile down here. If you find somebody with good references, and the problem is something that drugs/therapy can't seem to help with, why not give it a shot?

Link?

 

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by turbozed

Link?
Forgot about Chiro. Ask and ye shall receive: Beating Back Pain About 80 percent of the adults in the U.S. have been bothered by back pain at some point. The Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center recently surveyed more than 14,000 subscribers who experienced lower-back pain in the past year but never had back surgery. More than half said the pain severely limited their daily routine for a week or longer, and 88 percent said it recurred throughout the year. Lower-back pain disrupts many aspects of life. In our survey, 46 percent said that it interfered with their sleep, 31 percent reported that it thwarted their efforts to maintain a healthy weight, and 24 percent said that it hampered their sex life. Where to go for treatment When back pain goes on and on, many people go to see a primary-care doctor. While this visit may help rule out any serious underlying disease, a surprising number of the lower-back-pain sufferers we surveyed said they were disappointed with what the doctor could do to help. Although many of our respondents who saw a primary-care doctor left dissatisfied, doctors can write prescriptions and give referrals for hands-on treatments that might be covered by health insurance. Who helped the most? The percentage of people highly (completely or very) satisfied with their back-pain treatments and advice varied by practitioner visited. Professional Highly satisfied Chiropractor 59% Physical therapist 55% Acupuncturist 53% Physician, specialist 44% Physician, primary-care doctor 34% Source: Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center Patients with lower-back pain are faced with a confusing list of options. Our survey respondents tried an average of five or six different treatments over the course of just a year. We asked them to rate a comprehensive list of remedies (available to subscribers) and had enough data to rate 23 treatments. We analyzed the medical evidence for each and came up with recommendations and cautions. Here are some highlights from our survey findings:

• Hands-on treatments were rated by lower-back-pain sufferers as very helpful. Survey respondents favored chiropractic treatments (58 percent), massage (48 percent), and physical therapy (46 percent) (available to subscribers)—another testament to the healing power of touch.
• Spinal injections were rated just below chiropractic treatments by those who took our survey. Fifty-one percent of the respondents found them to be very helpful, although the techniques their doctors used varied.
• Prescription medications (available to subscribers), which one-third of our respondents said they took, were rated as beneficial by 45 percent of them. Almost 70 percent said they took an over-the-counter medication, but only 22 percent said the drugs were very helpful.
• Fifty-eight percent told us they wished they had done more exercising to strengthen their backs.
• Although lower-back pain is the fifth most common reason people go to a doctor, 35 percent of the people in our survey said they had never consulted a professional. Most of them had severely limiting pain for less than a week. Many of those with more prolonged pain who didn't see a health-care professional said it was because of cost concerns or because they did not think professional care could help.

About 80 percent of the adults in the U.S. have been bothered by back pain at some point. The Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center recently surveyed more than 14,000 subscribers who experienced lower-back pain in the past year but never had back surgery. More than half said the pain severely limited their daily routine for a week or longer, and 88 percent said it recurred throughout the year. Lower-back pain disrupts many aspects of life. In our survey, 46 percent said that it interfered with their sleep, 31 percent reported that it thwarted their efforts to maintain a healthy weight, and 24 percent said that it hampered their sex life. Where to go for treatment When back pain goes on and on, many people go to see a primary-care doctor. While this visit may help rule out any serious underlying disease, a surprising number of the lower-back-pain sufferers we surveyed said they were disappointed with what the doctor could do to help. Although many of our respondents who saw a primary-care doctor left dissatisfied, doctors can write prescriptions and give referrals for hands-on treatments that might be covered by health insurance. Who helped the most? The percentage of people highly (completely or very) satisfied with their back-pain treatments and advice varied by practitioner visited. Professional Highly satisfied Chiropractor 59% Physical therapist 55% Acupuncturist 53% Physician, specialist 44% Physician, primary-care doctor 34% Source: Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center Patients with lower-back pain are faced with a confusing list of options. Our survey respondents tried an average of five or six different treatments over the course of just a year. We asked them to rate a comprehensive list of remedies (available to subscribers) and had enough data to rate 23 treatments. We analyzed the medical evidence for each and came up with recommendations and cautions. Here are some highlights from our survey findings:

• Hands-on treatments were rated by lower-back-pain sufferers as very helpful. Survey respondents favored chiropractic treatments (58 percent), massage (48 percent), and physical therapy (46 percent) (available to subscribers)—another testament to the healing power of touch.
• Spinal injections were rated just below chiropractic treatments by those who took our survey. Fifty-one percent of the respondents found them to be very helpful, although the techniques their doctors used varied.
• Prescription medications (available to subscribers), which one-third of our respondents said they took, were rated as beneficial by 45 percent of them. Almost 70 percent said they took an over-the-counter medication, but only 22 percent said the drugs were very helpful.
• Fifty-eight percent told us they wished they had done more exercising to strengthen their backs.
• Although lower-back pain is the fifth most common reason people go to a doctor, 35 percent of the people in our survey said they had never consulted a professional. Most of them had severely limiting pain for less than a week. Many of those with more prolonged pain who didn't see a health-care professional said it was because of cost concerns or because they did not think professional care could help.

And here's something from their blog: People suffering from chronic low back pain who received acupuncture or simulated acupuncture treatments had better results than those receiving only conventional care, according to a study published this week in the Archives of Internal Medicine. In this trial of more than 600 adults with chronic lower-back pain who had never had acupuncture, folks were divided up and assigned to receive one of four treatments:

• individualized acupuncture, involving a customized prescription for acupuncture points from a diagnostician;
• standardized acupuncture, using a single prescription for acupuncture points that experts consider generally effective for chronic low back pain;
• simulated acupuncture, which mimics needle acupuncture with toothpicks but does not involve actual penetration of the skin; or
• conventional care, which mostly involved medications, primary care, and physical therapy visits.

After eight weeks of treatment, the patients receiving the three forms of acupuncture all improved significantly more than the patients receiving conventional care. And there was no significant difference between the groups receiving the needle and the toothpick acupuncture. This study "raises important questions about acupuncture’s mechanisms of action," says lead researcher Daniel Cherkin, Ph.D. of Group Health Center for Health Studies in Seattle. And Josephine P. Briggs, M.D., director of the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) says "This adds to the growing body of evidence that there is something meaningful taking place during acupuncture treatments outside of actual needling. Future research is needed to delve deeper into what is evoking these responses." But why did the patients in this study respond so well to toothpicks? "Touch is a complex interaction that involves a completely different approach to a person," says John Santa, M,D, M.P.H., director of the Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center. Our recent lower-back pain survey supports the benefits of a variety of back treatments that involve touch. Chiropractic, acupuncture, massage, physical therapy and injections into the back were all more likely to result in improvement than strategies not involving touch. "When a practitioner touches a patient, they enter a zone that we prefer most people to stay out of. Successful touch involves mutual trust, reassurance, confidence and relationships that each may help to relieve symptoms," says Santa. "The acupuncture study recently published reinforces how important touch can be in a healing relationship."

 

[Viktri]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Inspired by the massage thread, who's had accupuncture?

I have a (female) friend who's parents moved to Austrailia, and every time she goes there is this little Oriental guy that runs an accupuncture shop and she swears up and down how great it is. Other than that, I don't know anyone who's tried it, and would like some other opinions.

I've had it, not a fan. Esp. when they use electricity.

 

[Reggs]

My sister's cat Priscilla had it done. She was a diabetic. Her kidneys failed.

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Inspired by the massage thread, who's had accupuncture?...I don't know anyone who's tried it, and would like some other opinions.
If you like placebos, you'll love acupuncture. The evidence that supports it is almost entirely anecdotal. And the so-called "scientific" evidence that supports it is highly suspect because none of the tests were double-blind and all of the tests were done on people who were culturally familiar with the procedures and who, therefore, had expectations about the results.

Ask any practitioner why sticking a needle in Point X should produce Result Y at Point Z, and he'll either say something meaningless about chi (or chakras or energy forces), or he'll say something circular like, "Because that's the way it's worked for a thousand years." Neither of which is an explanation.

Since anecdotal evidence is all that really supports acupuncture, let me undermine it with my own anecdote. For several years I suffered from a pronounced pinching sensation where my neck meets my right shoulder -- exactly the kind of thing acupuncture claims to be good at resolving.

Acupuncture failed.
Chiropractics failed.
Deep massage failed.
Learning to sleep on my side (instead of on my stomach) decreased the pain.
Lifting weights regularly and seriously resolved the issue completely.

 

[jcc123]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Inspired by the massage thread, who's had accupuncture?

I have a (female) friend who's parents moved to Austrailia, and every time she goes there is this little Oriental guy that runs an accupuncture shop and she swears up and down how great it is. Other than that, I don't know anyone who's tried it, and would like some other opinions.

"Oriental Guy"??? What are you, 80 years old? You mean Asian, most likely a Chinese since that's where it originated from. They're also the best at the procedure. Stay away from the "Occidentals" because they don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.

 

[jcc123]

Originally Posted by Threadbearer

If you like placebos, you'll love acupuncture. The evidence that supports it is almost entirely anecdotal. And the so-called "scientific" evidence that supports it is highly suspect because none of the tests were double-blind and all of the tests were done on people who were culturally familiar with the procedures and who, therefore, had expectations about the results. Ask any practitioner why sticking a needle in Point X should produce Result Y at Point Z, and he'll either say something meaningless about chi (or chakras or energy forces), or he'll say something circular like, "Because that's the way it's worked for a thousand years." Neither of which is an explanation. Since anecdotal evidence is all that really supports acupuncture, let me undermine it with my own anecdote. For several years I suffered from a pronounced pinching sensation where my neck meets my right shoulder -- exactly the kind of thing acupuncture claims to be good at resolving. Acupuncture failed. Chiropractics failed. Deep massage failed. Learning to sleep on my side (instead of on my stomach) decreased the pain. Lifting weights regularly and seriously resolved the issue completely.
You don't know what you're talking about. Just like Western doctors the difference between a competent one vs. an idiot is vast. How do you know the acupuncturist you tried was any good? They're not all the same. For example, most Chinese doctors would not give Western patients the nasty herbal brew that they give their Eastern patients because they know that they won't be able to stand it. That stuff you have to drink twice a day is important in treatments and yet most people don't know about it. Also, there have been plenty of studies done. There been too many studies done since the Western doctors are still in shock that something not invented by a white person from the west can actually work.

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by jcc123

That stuff you have to drink twice a day is important in treatments and yet most people don't know about it.
Really? And just how does that "stuff you have to drink" work? Does it stimulate your "energy centers," or does it work just because a bunch of people from China say it does? Lots of people believe in Voodoo, too, not to mention astrology, leprechauns, and unicorns. That doesn't make them real.

There been too many studies done since the Western doctors are still in shock that something not invented by a white person from the west can actually work.

Too many studies, eh? Interesting phrasing. Well, you know what Stevie Wonder says:

"When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer.
Superstition ain't the way. No, no, no."

 

[Reggs]

Originally Posted by jcc123

Also, there have been plenty of studies done. There been too many studies done since the Western doctors are still in shock that something not invented by a white person from the west can actually work.

Of all the bullshit way's idiots defend pseudoscience, crying racist has to be a new favorite of mine.

 

[Prada_Ferragamo]

It cured my grandfather's shoulder pain. He tried it after everything else failed him. My ex-gf's mother swears by it now since it also cured her of rheumatoid arthritis also after she tried everything else. Sure it's pseudoscience, but if it actually helps people, why not. When I am in clinic, I always tell people who have chronic pain to seek alternative therapies before I put them on some sort of narcotics which in itself is not all that great.

 

[Coldsnap]

accupuncture does not work, their are studies where the patients received fake accupuncture with toothpicks and they had the same results as the people who received actual accupuncture,

 

[tundrafour]

Maybe. For the past four or so years I've had a problem with the muscles in my upper back cramping very suddenly and severely for no apparent reason. Once it happened when I sneezed; last Tuesday it happened when I sniffed. When this has happened in the past it's taken about a month or two for my back to return to normal with a fair amount of pain and limited mobility (mostly in my neck) in the interim. I hadn't gone to a doctor about it when it happened before, but when it happened again last week I made an appointment with a general practitioner and decided to try acupuncture, too, since my insurance covers it. The acupuncture place was able to fit me in first; I went in this past Friday. I was very skeptical (I told myself I'd view my co-pay as paying for a new and potentially interesting experience rather than the treatment itself) but, three days later, the pain is almost completely gone. I'm inclined to attribute it to coincidence (or at least partly to the fact that I had to lie face down and relax for half an hour to 45 minutes while the acupuncture needles, uh, did their thing) but it is interesting that this problem has consistently taken at least a month to go away for the past several years. This time, the only thing I did differently was the acupuncture, and it's like night and day less than a week later.