or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Correct button stance
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Correct button stance - Page 2

post #16 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The main problem with the second one is less the height of the buttoning point in absolute terms than that the waist button does not line up with the latitude of the coat's waist. That throws off the balance more than anything else. It's important to note that if you want a coat with a high buttoning point, you can't simply ask your tailor to move up the waist button at the final fitting. I mean, you can do that, but the chances that it will look right are not great. The high button point has to be "built in" at the cutting stage. That said, I think the top one is slightly lower than I prefer, and the bottom one slightly higher. What I try for on SB coats is a button point that to the naked eye looks as though the waist button is exactly at the mid-point of the coat. Place it at the real mid-point, though, and it will look too high. The "right" point is something like (measuring up from the front bottom edge) center backseam divided by two, minus some small amount, depending on height and body shape. 2" would be a lot; 1" probably the minimum; 1.5" or 1.25" just right in most cases.
As a point of reference, I used a 3-button jacket as a primer when drawing the 1-button jackets. The second picture (higher button) is based on a jacket whose button is directly where the middle button is on a 3-button jacket, whereas the in the first jacket (lower button) the button is based on my own visual perception as to what looks "˜balanced'. Jon.
post #17 of 34
I like the first one -- that is still on the higher side of "classic" IMO. Even if the waist of the second coat were raised, the first one would still be more flattering to my body types, as it would probably create a bit more shape to the chest (more 3 dimensional). It would also avoid having the skirt flare too much. But, on a more personal note, those are incredible drawings -- the first of which I shall be taking to my tailor.
post #18 of 34
So, for example, does the middle button on this jacket look too high?
post #19 of 34
Thread Starter 
Here are the jackets side by side with a line drawn at midpoint: Jon.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
So, for example, does the middle button on this jacket look too high?
You sure that's the middle button? Looks like the top to me. And it does indeed look too high.
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Quote:
(water @ April 02 2005,14:37) So, for example, does the middle button on this jacket look too high?
You sure that's the middle button? Looks like the top to me. And it does indeed look too high.
Yes, it's the middle button; you can see the rolled upper buttonhole on the lapel. I agree that it is too high. Jon.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Yes, it's the middle button; you can see the rolled upper buttonhole on the lapel.
Looking again, yes I see. Way too high. Who made that?
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Not necessarily. It's much more important for trousers to be at (or above) the natural waist than it is for jackets. A jacket's proper fit does not depend on the latitude of the natural waist, whereas the fit of trousers does
Now really Manton, you have to be living in another century... As knowledgeable you may be about coats, wearing a trousers above natural waist in the 21st century is just an abomination, a fashion crime : trousers should lay on the hips, that's really the most comfortable you can wear. Luc
post #24 of 34
It is comfortable only in the sense that it is cooler.  I find that my most comfortable trousers are those that sit just above the natural waist, are about 1" too big in the waistband, and are worn with suspenders.  Granted, they are not ideal in August.  But in moderate to cool to cold weather, they are great. I hate trousers that sit at the hips.  They shorten the leg line.  Shirt front shows under the waist button of the coat and above the waistband of the trousers.  They just look "bad."  When I wear belts, I get trousers cut to sit a hair below the natural waist, with a very gentle curve upward in the rear waistband.  In order for them not to slip, they need to fit so precisely that the belt is just a decoration. Cinching is just unpleasant.  These are not so comfortable as suspender-rise trousers, but they are better in hot weather.  And they look damn good.  Hard to make, though.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Now really Manton, you have to be living in another century... As knowledgeable you may be about coats, wearing a trousers above natural waist in the 21st century is just an abomination, a fashion crime : trousers should lay on the hips, that's really the most comfortable you can wear.
I can't believe I am going to have to agree with Manton here, to some degree. I think that it depends on the cut of the suit. Certainly, on the suits I favour and own, all of which have slim jackets and flat front, slim pants, the pants are menat to be worn on the hips. On "classic" suits, though, pants should sit *just* below the natural waist. I recommend such suits to men who were alive for more than half of the last century, and to fat men in general. For all younger, fitter men, I suggest more modern cut suits.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Looking again, yes I see. Way too high. Who made that?
It is a three-piece Isaia suit.
post #27 of 34
LAG : yeah, to some degree. If you have a flat stomach, there is no need to wear a high rise pants. Now, you can have a flat stomach at 50 Manton, flat front trousers (of course, I always meant flat front : pleated trousers are not to stay on the hips, it just doesn't look right) don't need a belt either to fall perfectly Ah well, it depends on the cut, and your figure, that's what all this forum is about : point is, I don't think ImageWIS is old enough to wear a high rise pleated trousers with suspenders Luc
post #28 of 34
Quote:
When I wear belts, I get trousers cut to sit a hair below the natural waist, with a very gentle curve upward in the rear waistband.  In order for them not to slip, they need to fit so precisely that the belt is just a decoration.  Cinching is just unpleasant.  These are not so comfortable as suspender-rise trousers, but they are better in hot weather.  And they look damn good.  Hard to make, though.
Manton, May I ask what you mean by "a very gentle curve upward in the rear waistband"? I am interested to tailor some trousers that sit high but without a belt. Would you have any pictures or sketch to shwo what you mean?
post #29 of 34
Sorry, I don't have any pics.  Most belt-trousers are made like this to some degree, however.  By "gentle curve" I mean that the waistband is maybe 1.5" higher in back.  When you're wearing the trousers, you wouldn't even notice.  If you laid them out flat along the creases, it would be readily apparent, however. But a curved waistband is not enough.  The trousers also have to have a perfect rise, and be perfectly fitted through the hips.  To make "suspender-less" trousers that fit at (or just below) the waist, don't slip to the hips, and don't feel tight in the waistband, upper thigh or seat is hard to do.  If you find a tailor who can do it, be nice to him.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Sorry, I don't have any pics.  Most belt-trousers are made like this to some degree, however.  By "gentle curve" I mean that the waistband is maybe 1.5" higher in back.  When you're wearing the trousers, you wouldn't even notice.  If you laid them out flat along the creases, it would be readily apparent, however. But a curved waistband is not enough.  The trousers also have to have a perfect rise, and be prefectly fitted through the hips.  To make "suspender-less" trousers that fit at (or just below) the waist, don't slip to the hips, and don't feel tight in the waistband, upper thigh or seat is hard to do.  If you find a tailor who can do it, be nice to him.
Manton, I will keep that design in mind when I order the next pair of pants. Back to button stance: I can imagine instances where the lowest button and hip pockets might not line up after button point and coat length are determined. Is it preferable to line up hip pockets and lowest button? What about the height of side vents? I understand that they also reach the same line if hip pockets and button point line up. Where should side vents end if those two don't line up?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Correct button stance