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BCS Championship Game - Page 7

post #91 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post
You're all over the map with inaccuracies... I'm not sure where to start. First... I don't feel like checking stats right now, but if USC didn't put more yards up against OSU than UT I'm shocked... and I'm assuming when you say "most yards ever" you mean this year - otherwise I'm sure you're way off. And... OSU's offense was not so special this year with mediocre plus receivers, a freshman quarterback, and a star RB that played 75% of the time at best, and they put up a ton of yards on UT (#5 rushing D in the country?). Second... I did not say a word about how great Florida's offense is. They were good enough to win all but one game this year. So were many others. I stand by the fact that the defenses in the Big 12 are categorically weak THIS YEAR and that accounts for the fact that none of the teams from the conference hit their average scores in their bowl games (again, I didn't look this up, so it might not be 100%, but UT, TT, and OU certainly did not). Third... conferences DO matter. Had the rest of the Pac 10 been stronger, the BCS may have put USC in the NC game. OU got there based on the assumed strength of the competition they played and (despite the pervailing lie that margin of victory is not considered) how badly they beat them. Third and a half... The best team in any conference may be better than everybody else at any given time, but there is NO QUESTION that in the last 10 years, the SEC has been the deepest conference. Their #4 and 5 teams would win the ACC, or Big East most years and come in #2 or #3 in the Big 10 or Pac 10. Third and 3/4.... The SEC has won 5 BCS championships, the Big 12 has won 2, the Big 10, ACC, and Pac 10 have each won 1. Do you REALLY not think there is some dominance? Third and 5/8... Tell UTAH the quality of their conference didn't hold hurt them. Listen.... if your purpose is to be a homer, go for it. Drink the kool-aid, enjoy a GREAT victory in an exciting bowl game where two storied programs battled it out for a rubber match after a super home and away series a few years ago. Tell me UT deserved to be in the NC game b/c they beat OU and they would not have gotten smoked even worse by FU. But if you want to be objective, and really understand why the BCS is and incredibly flawed system, you're going to have to pay more attention to the bigger picture. And the bigger picture says... you can't assume a one-loss team from one conference is better than a one-loss team from another conference when there is not a substantial amount of interconference play at the highest levels at the beginning of the season.
1) Texas put more than 100 more yards on tOSU than did USC, UF, or LSU. They put the most yards ever on a Tressel Buckeye team. Whoops. Maybe you meant to say that tOSU was all over the map with Pryor's inaccuracies. 2) If you're going to make an argument - go look it up. You're close, but wrong again. Big surprise. Besides - what does it mean when a team scores below their average in bowl game? Wouldn't you expect this to happen against better competition? TT, OU, UT and OkSU also mostly scored their averages against each other. 3) The SOS was determined by computers, which gave OU the edge in 03, even after getting fuckstompted by KState. The voters overwhelmingly had USC as the number one team. So conference strength fucked USC, but that's a problem with the BCS formula, not with conference strength. The voters were willing to overlook a weak conference. Same thing with Utah - they got screwed (if you believe they are the real deal and not that Bama was a joke and the product of weak SEC offenses) b/c the BCS takes into account computer SOS rankings. That's not Utah or the Mountain West's fault, it's fault of the people who decide the BCS algorithm. 3.5) I never said the SEC hasn't been the best conference, just that winning the best conference doesn't make a team the best in the nation. Does it not strike you that of the greatest teams of the BCS era - 05 Texas, 04 USC, 01 Miami, none are from the SEC? Isn't it also remarkable that of the SEC's five BCS titles, four came against tOSU and OU? I.e., two teams that choke when they bend over to tie their shoes? None came against Texas, USC, or Miami. 4) Again, so what. I couldn't care less about a conference. In 05, the Big XII was at its absolute lowest, and yet it produced its greatest team since the mid-90s Nebraska teams. Enjoy your SEC Koolaid. SEC!SEC!SEC!
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post #92 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
A simpler figure: USC vs. OSU: 35-3; UT vs. OSU: 24-21
Yeah... turns out I'm wrong though. Since we stopped them from scoring a few times, UT managed to amass 468 offensive yards to score 33 while USC only gained 348 in their 35 point campaign. On the other hand, USC's defense held the Buckeye offense (albeit with Boeckman as the starter and Chris Wells out of the game) to an anemic 207 vs. the 379 we dropped on the Longhorns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
Which was somewhat ironic in that the Pac-10 was 5-0 in its bowl games.
That is way true... but at the beginning of the year, PSU annihilated Oregon State and I think it was Tennessee that shut out UCLA 51-0. Also the two Washington teams combined for like 2 wins all season.
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post #93 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
1) Texas put more than 100 more yards on tOSU than did USC, UF, or LSU. They put the most yards ever on a Tressel Buckeye team. Whoops. Maybe you meant to say that tOSU was all over the map with Pryor's inaccuracies.
See above... you beat me to it. And Texas won the game, but it was a very close one. Points allowed is a much better measure of defense than total yardage. Ask Colt how much all the yards on the way to an ill-advised goal-line INT at the end of the first half were worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
2) If you're going to make an argument - go look it up. You're close, but wrong again. Big surprise. Besides - what does it mean when a team scores below their average in bowl game? Wouldn't you expect this to happen against better competition? TT, OU, UT and OkSU also mostly scored their averages against each other.
The Big XII south was allegedly the best competition around. Until yesterday, Mack Brown was still running around claiming he was going to vote UT #1 in the poll. And I'm not wrong.... .........Avg................ Bowl OU ...54.76923..... 14 TT ... 48.25 .............34 OSU....42 .. ...... 31 UT .... 44.41667.......... 24 And I eyeballed Nebraska, Mizzou, and Kansas who were also below season average in their bowl games. And for more good measure, Ohio State averaged 28 / game and scored 21 against Texas.... below average, but much closer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
3) The SOS was determined by computers, which gave OU the edge in 03, even after getting fuckstompted by KState. The voters overwhelmingly had USC as the number one team. So conference strength fucked USC, but that's a problem with the BCS formula, not with conference strength. The voters were willing to overlook a weak conference. Same thing with Utah - they got screwed (if you believe they are the real deal and not that Bama was a joke and the product of weak SEC offenses) b/c the BCS takes into account computer SOS rankings. That's not Utah or the Mountain West's fault, it's fault of the people who decide the BCS algorithm.
OK... so we agree. The whole point of all of this is that the current BCS system does not determine the best team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
3.5) I never said the SEC hasn't been the best conference, just that winning the best conference doesn't make a team the best in the nation. Does it not strike you that of the greatest teams of the BCS era - 05 Texas, 04 USC, 01 Miami, none are from the SEC? Isn't it also remarkable that of the SEC's five BCS titles, four came against tOSU and OU? I.e., two teams that choke when they bend over to tie their shoes? None came against Texas, USC, or Miami.
How do you figure that? Because all of the SEC teams that won had at least one loss on their records the cannot be as great? The whole argument by the SEC fans (of which I am OBVIOUSLY not one... I am a die-hard fan of a team that is 0-10 against the SEC) is that by playing in such a tough conference, it is impossible to get out undefeated and they may get left out of the game because it's easier to skate through the Big 10, Pac 10, Big East, or ACC without a loss. I also notice the '02 Buckeyes are left off your list. They're not even close to the best Buckeye team I've watched, so I have to agree... but they were undefeated and killed a Miami team that returned a whole pile of starters from 01.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
4) Again, so what. I couldn't care less about a conference. In 05, the Big XII was at its absolute lowest, and yet it produced its greatest team since the mid-90s Nebraska teams. Enjoy your SEC Koolaid. SEC!SEC!SEC!
That was a great team. I was at Ohio Stadium when they beat us, and as sad as I was, I called the UT national championship that day. They were special. Without the OSU win on the books, the current system *might* (although unlikely since there were only 2 undefeated teams that year, IIRC) have edged them out of the game.
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post #94 of 101
1/10/09 at 12:45pm
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Originally Posted by Connemara View Post
As are all Buckeyes!

Are you sure it's not just fear? I'm sure I'd be scared of a team that so thoroughly made my team their bitch in a single year.
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post #95 of 101
1/10/09 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post
I also notice the '02 Buckeyes are left off your list. They're not even close to the best Buckeye team I've watched, so I have to agree... but they were undefeated and killed a Miami team that returned a whole pile of starters from 01..

Ahem...."KILLED"? As in got a bullshit game-saving pass interference call and then went on to win in two overtimes? Yeah, a really dominant performance.

Sorry, I agreed with everything else you said, but "killed" almost made me spit out my coke.
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post #96 of 101
1/10/09 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post
I think your premise is off. The reason there is no option in the NFL is not only because the defenses are so much better; that is secondary to the fact that the option hangs QB's out to get hurt and in the NFL, QB's are too expensive to risk.
Not just talking about QB option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post
Defense had a LOT to do with that game. 2 goal line stands for 0 points by the most prolific offense in NCAA history????? Because the Big 12 had very little defense to speak of but Florida's D is severe.
Still nothing compared to the NFL. There's too many big plays in NCAA football to really think defense matters as much as offense.
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post #97 of 101
1/10/09 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
Ahem...."KILLED"? As in got a bullshit game-saving pass interference call and then went on to win in two overtimes? Yeah, a really dominant performance.

Sorry, I agreed with everything else you said, but "killed" almost made me spit out my coke.
OK... revisionist history. We owned them for a half, and one play in OT. But we did NOT kill.
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post #98 of 101
1/10/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Not just talking about QB option. Still nothing compared to the NFL. There's too many big plays in NCAA football to really think defense matters as much as offense.
I agree to a point. The '02 Buckeyes proved D can win championships in NCAA. However, the Spurrier Florida teams prove your point. That offense would NEVER have worked in the NFL.
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post #99 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:00pm
I left the 02 Bucks off the list b/c they played relatively poorly against some mediocre teams and lacked great QB play (same as most of the SEC champions), but on second thought, the 02 Bucks ability to win, no matter what, marks them as a great team. I also left off the SEC teams because the teams they beat in their BCS games arguably did not deserve to be there. I guess 2000 OU has an argument as well (talk about a great defense!), although I would have liked to have seen them play Miami. Comparing USC's win over UT's is meaningless for a variety of reasons. First, both teams won, and that's the point. The goal of football isn't to get "style points." Second, USC won at home, tOSU lacked their best and most dominant player (Beanie) and Pryor was in his infancy as a player. Third, matchups matter in football. Because USC (theoretically) matched up better w/ a very good tOSU team (they have more NFl talent on the roster than Texas) than did Texas does not mean that USC would match up well with Texas. We just don't know. (I think Kansas scored their season-high in their bowl game.)
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post #100 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
I left the 02 Bucks off the list b/c they played relatively poorly against some mediocre teams and lacked great QB play (same as most of the SEC champions), but on second thought, the 02 Bucks ability to win, no matter what, marks them as a great team. I also left off the SEC teams because the teams they beat in their BCS games arguably did not deserve to be there. I guess 2000 OU has an argument as well (talk about a great defense!), although I would have liked to have seen them play Miami. Comparing USC's win over UT's is meaningless for a variety of reasons. First, both teams won, and that's the point. The goal of football isn't to get "style points." Second, USC won at home, tOSU lacked their best and most dominant player (Beanie) and Pryor was in his infancy as a player. Third, matchups matter in football. Because USC (theoretically) matched up better w/ a very good tOSU team (they have more NFl talent on the roster than Texas) than did Texas does not mean that USC would match up well with Texas. We just don't know. (I think Kansas scored their season-high in their bowl game.)
You're right about KU. My eyeball was off because ESPN always puts the winner's score on the left. And you're right about USC killing OSU having nothing at all to do with how well UT would have played against USC. Again, the point of all of this is that while these conversations are entertaining, they've become redundant. Year after year, at least one and sometimes two VERY DESERVING teams are shut out of a chance to play for the title. I was a BCS bandwagoner for a long time. I have only recently had the "come to jesus" that we need a playoff badly. So I'll lay out all the reasons I thought the BCS was good or a playoff would never work. But I'm over all of it. It's gotta be better than what we have! 1> It's really hard to go undefeated. If the teams arguing they got shut out of the game are one-loss teams... easy answer, they shouldn't have lost. ----------- that worked until the Cadillac Williams Auburn team got shut out of the game despite being the only undefeated SEC team in the last decade. 2> If we argue about who's number 3, just think how many teams have an argument that they should be number 8! -----------yeah... but see above. Now we're probably in 2-loss territory where we have head-to-head victories to decide the top 8 teams. 3> The money won't be there ----------in a way, it won't. you can't use the bowl system to have a number of bowl games decide it, because people won't travel twice to see their team. But the TV money will be there, so the early rounds will need to be played at the higher seed's home. Again, I think that will level the playing field a lot since the winners in the post season are very often local teams. 4> It will diminish the rest of the bowls ---------yeah... it will. but so what? there are WAY too many bowls these days. most of them suck. I will admit I was hyped about the Fiesta Bowl, but I've been to 3 and didn't even think of traveling this year. And if it were Capital 1, or Outback... meh
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post #101 of 101
1/10/09 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airportlobby View Post
the 02 Bucks ability to win, no matter what, marks them as a great team.
Ah.. nostalgia... "Holy Buckeye" against Purdue was the second greatest moment of that year. I might have to throw in the DVD just to watch that play. What's amazing is how much more talented and less disciplined/motivated some of the Cooper teams were. Coaching is SO important in NCAA. You guys are fortunate to have Mack. He's one of the greats.
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