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Denim Terminology and Links - Page 3

post #31 of 86
To answer your question, this was something I managed to Google today (came from some obscure report on "genetic seeding", which sounded dodgy enough to warrant a quote): Genetically Modified Cotton Pioneered by agricultural giant, Monsanto, purveyor of the genetically modified seed. It's current blue cotton programme is aimed at the jeans market ($10 billion in the US and £800 million in the UK) and involves the transfer of a gene from a blue flower to the cotton plant. The product will be commercially available from 2005. Further initiatives will genetically manipulate the cotton plant to impart other natural colours, modify fibre properties and impart pesticide and herbicide resistance.
post #32 of 86
nice... hope not to see multicolored jeans in the future... blue is enough.
post #33 of 86
Quote:
To answer your question, this was something I managed to Google today (came from some obscure report on "genetic seeding", which sounded dodgy enough to warrant a quote): Genetically Modified Cotton Pioneered by agricultural giant, Monsanto, purveyor of the genetically modified seed. It's current blue cotton programme is aimed at the jeans market ($10 billion in the US and £800 million in the UK) and involves the transfer of a gene from a blue flower to the cotton plant. The product will be commercially available from 2005. Further initiatives will genetically manipulate the cotton plant to impart other natural colours, modify fibre properties and impart pesticide and herbicide resistance.
They should try inserting the Luciferase gene... from the firefly. They used it as a marker for some GM tobacco plants.
post #34 of 86
LHT and RHT After reading some posts on Superfuture (thanks to LA Guy and Brian SD for the link), I am still confused WHY LHT is supposed to be softer? As I mentioned before, my old 45 RPM and Lee 101 in LHT do not feel softer than my Levis repros. However, many people still claim that LHT is softer. I thought that it is only the direction of the weaving that is different. Is there something intrinsic to the looms that weave LHT that makes it softer? The tension?
post #35 of 86
I think LA Guy explains the LH/RH thing very well. It's worth reading his explanations again. It's about the relationship of the direct of the twill weave compared to the twist of the yarn. In a world where all things are equal a LH twill woven with Z twist yarn will have a slightly softer feeling than a RH twill woven with Z twist. Z twist = right hand twisted yarn - the usual yarn used for denim. S twist = left hand twisted yarn. In reality things are never equal and you'll find softer RH twills or broken twills. Stone washing, enzymes, silicone, fabric softners etc will all help denims become softer.
post #36 of 86
Quote:
In reality things are never equal and you'll find softer RH twills or broken twills. Stone washing, enzymes, silicone, fabric softners etc will all help denims become softer.
ring ring is exactly right. This is why a typical pair of Paper Denims, although made of 3x1 RHT, feels so soft right off the bat.
post #37 of 86
Thread Starter 
I'm wearing a pair of jeans right now that is made from half LHT and half RHT. The right leg (LHT) feels softer than the left leg (RHT). That is an example of the exact same materials used in two different weaves (RH and LH) where the RH is more closed and less soft. T4, imagine vaccuuming the floor - you push the vaccuum forward and it flattens out the carpet. This is right hand twill. You pull the vaccuum back and it opens and fluffs up the carpet a little. This is left hand twill.
post #38 of 86
Quote:
I'm wearing a pair of jeans right now that is made from half LHT and half RHT. The right leg (LHT) feels softer than the left leg (RHT). That is an example of the exact same materials used in two different weaves (RH and LH) where the RH is more closed and less soft. T4, imagine vaccuuming the floor - you push the vaccuum forward and it flattens out the carpet. This is right hand twill. You pull the vaccuum back and it opens and fluffs up the carpet a little. This is left hand twill.
Brian, what pair of jeans is that? I have never seen such a thing. Are the right and left legs ageing differently? This is *really* interesting.
post #39 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian SD,April 28 2005,13:56
I'm wearing a pair of jeans right now that is made from half LHT and half RHT. The right leg (LHT) feels softer than the left leg (RHT). That is an example of the exact same materials used in two different weaves (RH and LH) where the RH is more closed and less soft. T4, imagine vaccuuming the floor - you push the vaccuum forward and it flattens out the carpet. This is right hand twill. You pull the vaccuum back and it opens and fluffs up the carpet a little. This is left hand twill.
Brian, what pair of jeans is that? I have never seen such a thing. Are the right and left legs ageing differently? This is *really* interesting.
I'll take pictures when the batteries in my camera are charged enough. The front of the right leg is LH, the back of the right leg is RH, the front of the left leg is RH, the back of the left leg is LH. I'll edit this post with pictures ASAP. As for the aging differently, they're pre-washed, but you can still see the difference in texture and abrasion susceptability between the two denims (if thats a word).
post #40 of 86
What brand is this?
post #41 of 86
Thread Starter 
Detail of LH Twill Detail of RH Twill Frontal comparison of both legs Steep-angle comparison of both legs - to show difference in streakiness. Side Seam - Observe seperation between the two twills on the outseam and the difference in texture. Oh duh, I forgot to mention. These are the Kunna Straight leg jeans. In conclusion, you can see the difference in texture and can probably get a good idea of the "softerness" of the LH Twill, as well as the more emphasized streakiness/vertical fading that comes from washing and abrasians on LHT.
post #42 of 86
Hey Brian, I've been thinking of picking up a pair of Kunna's for a while.  I've seen the Z and the V bootlegs, but not this wierd straightleg amalgam.  Where did you find them?  And what is the denim weight?  I know that the denim is vintage, but would you say that the weight is more, say 11 ounces, or 13 ounces, or 14+ ounces?
post #43 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Hey Brian, I've been thinking of picking up a pair of Kunna's for a while. I've seen the Z and the V bootlegs, but not this wierd straightleg amalgam. Where did you find them? And what is the denim weight? I know that the denim is vintage, but would you say that the weight is more, say 11 ounces, or 13 ounces, or 14+ ounces?
I got them at STEADY in Little Italy here in SD earlier this year, but they were on clearance and the store owner says he doesnt plan to buy any more of them because the skaters who go there don't like low-rise jeans. I saw a pair of these exact jeans on eBay awhile ago, the guy wanted like $70 for them, which is fair, I think the retail is in the $150-160 range. The denim weight is 13-14 ounces, and I'm leaning on the 14 ounce end. The fit is really great, and they are slimmer than the average jean. some other neat things are - ecru weft instead of bleached, two-tone stitching copper/yellow, realistic rips, and a "K" embroidered on the bottom of the right leg. Made in the U.S.A., waist is exactly true to size. the rise is about the same as the PDC GTO, with less of a dip in the front, and the fly is 4-button. Downsides - no concealed rivets, no selvage, although they did do a good job faux-selvaging. The outseam still looks cool, the chainstitching alternates colors between red and orange threadlinks, one of them being predominately red and the other being predominately orange.
post #44 of 86
Okay, from what I gather, LHT is softer than RHT because of the weaving process... and that process is not just the reverse of the process for RHT. Originally posted by ringring:
Quote:
In a world where all things are equal a LH twill woven with Z twist yarn will have a slightly softer feeling than a RH twill woven with Z twist. Z twist = right hand twisted yarn - the usual yarn used for denim. S twist = left hand twisted yarn.
Like DNA forms. I still have a hard time picturing this. If you twist cotton fibres to form a yarn... twisting it left or right you end up with a yarn that feels the same in terms of softness. Originally posted by BrianSD:
Quote:
T4, imagine vaccuuming the floor - you push the vaccuum forward and it flattens out the carpet. This is right hand twill. You pull the vaccuum back and it opens and fluffs up the carpet a little. This is left hand twill.
Thanks Brian, I can picture that. But a carpet has a "pile" whilst denim has none. Thus a woven carpet has directionality due to the way the pile is woven onto the warp and weft.
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Okay, from what I gather, LHT is softer than RHT because of the weaving process... and that process is not just the reverse of the process for RHT. Originally posted by ringring:
Quote:
In a world where all things are equal a LH twill woven with Z twist yarn will have a slightly softer feeling than a RH twill woven with Z twist. Z twist = right hand twisted yarn - the usual yarn used for denim. S twist = left hand twisted yarn.
Like DNA forms.   I still have a hard time picturing this.  If you twist cotton fibres to form a yarn... twisting it left or right you end up with a yarn that feels the same in terms of softness. Originally posted by BrianSD:
Quote:
T4, imagine vaccuuming the floor - you push the vaccuum forward and it flattens out the carpet. This is right hand twill. You pull the vaccuum back and it opens and fluffs up the carpet a little. This is left hand twill.
Thanks Brian, I can picture that.  But a carpet has a "pile" whilst denim has none.  Thus a woven carpet has directionality due to the way the pile is woven onto the warp and weft.
To go a little further in terms of analogy, and bear withn me because I am not a molecular biologist by any stretch of the imagination. Most yarns are twisted RH, imagine a DNA strand of denim, if you will. If you weave this left handed (which is actually pretty close to being the reverse of weaving the yarn right handed) you will break some of the sulfhydryl bonds, and somewhat loosen the RH yarn. If weave right handed, you twist the yarns in the same direction, resulting in tighter yarns, allowing more sulfhydryl bonds to form. Yes, yes, this analogy sucks for a number reasons, which we could discuss ad nauseum, but just thought I'd throw it out there for fun., and that you might enjoy it.
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