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My Style Forum thesis - Page 2

post #16 of 29
I'd just go with the Black Label, if I were you. Wait until they go on sale (which they almost certainly will, as I'm predicting a failed experiement on Ralph's part -- and not because they aren't cool looking suits). To be honest, the suit you are going for is going to be dated at some point shortly down the line (in five years you'll look at it and ask what you were thinking) -- not that this is a knock on what you are going for; only to say that what you are going for isn't going to be a timeless business suit. Therefore, construction quality isn't at a premium, especially considering that the Black Label suits are about the best non-fully canvassed suit construction out there (along with Blue Label). The fusing is so light that it hardly makes the jacket any less comfortable.
post #17 of 29
question: is it possible to have such a slim fit with this much waist suppression?
post #18 of 29
...and an added complication....do you speak Shanghainese? As you are so particular about what you want, you may have to explain it direct to the cutter, and if he is an elderly Shanghainese gentleman - as he likely will be - he will probably speak reasonable Mandarin, minimal English, but Shanghainese will very much be his native tongue...and a suit with this level of complexity will be tough to explain in his second language and near impossible in his third. Id take a Shanghainese speaker, a lot of pics and do a lot of circling of the parts you want, and dont take "Yes Yes" for an answer...you will find a lot of ppl say yes to you just to avoid looking like they do not understand...just my two cents after four years of living in Asia - hope it helps.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
To be honest, the suit you are going for is going to be dated at some point shortly down the line (in five years you'll look at it and ask what you were thinking) -- not that this is a knock on what you are going for; only to say that what you are going for isn't going to be a timeless business suit.
The poster said he doesn't wear a suit to work, so he's not going for a business look, this is an evening suit; in which something cooler than a business suit would be ideal. If I ever wear a suit in the evening or for going out, my only rule is that I couldn't wear it to an office job. Something with a fashion cut or an off color pinstripe is what I have in mind. Also, there is no such thing as a "timeless" suit. At some point everything will look dated. Just look at the stuff that populates eBay. Even the most staid companies change their cuts and fabrics every so often.
post #20 of 29
stovepipe with a slight flare? flare cut doesn't work with wool, it looks bad. flare cut + narrow lapel = bad. Skinny jacket goes with skinny pants. lapel roll with narrow lapel = bad High gorge with narrow lapel = very bad Get a pencil, a piece of paper and try to sketch what you detailed : it will look atrocious. And no, there is nothing like a "timeless look", although the roman style from the 50s is pretty much what would fit this description best. Luc
post #21 of 29
If I can add my two fen1's, I have a lot of experience with a lot of bespoke tailors, but the one "common thread" running through each of them is they really want to be the ones to determine the more technical specifications of the garment, such as gorge, lapel width, etc, based on their overall judgement  of what would be most appropriate and flattering on your body.  While tailors generally appreciate an enthusiastic and involved client, still if you go too overboard with too voluminous a laundry list of specs that goes beyond the cosmetics (pockets, vents, pleats, etc), you risk being invited to leave the premises.  Tailors usually don't want to compete with their clients in matters of judgement.  And, you really don't want to anger someone with access to cutting shears.  Defer to your tailor, he's the expert. Grayson
post #22 of 29
Quote:
The poster said he doesn't wear a suit to work, so he's not going for a business look, this is an evening suit; in which something cooler than a business suit would be ideal. If I ever wear a suit in the evening or for going out, my only rule is that I couldn't wear it to an office job. Something with a fashion cut or an off color pinstripe is what I have in mind.    Also, there is no such thing as a "timeless" suit. At some point everything will look dated. Just look at the stuff that populates eBay. Even the most staid companies change their cuts and fabrics every so often.
I understand that he's not planning on wearing this to work, which is why I said that he should be paying more attention to fit and style, and a bit less attention to purity of construction (though, of course, a better construction will, all other things equal, result in a better fit). I disagree that an suit to wear during the evenings can't be something you'd wear to work. I guess it depends upon what you'd be willing to wear to work. I think that The Foxx would disagree that his Attolini or Brioni suits are relegated to either daytime or evening wear. I think most on this board don't get foppish suits for business wear -- a well fitting suit in a dark fabric with stylish details is more versatile than you'd give credit for. Sure, a classic Savile Row suit is not something you'd wear to a club -- but how many people wear suits to a club anyways? And are you saying that you couldn't wear a Black Label suit to the office? I think you most certainly could, depending on what your body looks like. Regarding timelessness, did you see the Fallan & Harvey suits that A. Harris was selling some time back? He had about seven suits in all, and they were made over a 10 year period from the early 1990s to the early 2000s, I believe. I challenge you to pick out which was which.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Regarding timelessness, did you see the Fallan & Harvey suits that A. Harris was selling some time back? He had about seven suits in all, and they were made over a 10 year period from the early 1990s to the early 2000s, I believe. I challenge you to pick out which was which.
True, of the suits that Keith Fallan made for me several years ago that came out alright, they do not look dated in the least today. Although I'd advise against purchasing any bespoke garment second-hand. Grayson
post #24 of 29
Indeed Johnynormann3, but I do not consider a 15 years span timeless as men's fashion did not evolve that much during this period : changes between 60s, 70s and 80s have been more radical, going from one outrageousness to another... Luc
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Indeed Johnynormann3, but I do not consider a 15 years span timeless   as men's fashion did not evolve that much during this period : changes between 60s, 70s and 80s have been more radical, going from one outrageousness to another... Luc
Okay, Luc. So, I thought it went without saying that "timeless" in this discussion had a certain meaning. Obviously in year 5000 A.D. the most classic Savile Row work will probably be dated (but who knows). But, for our purposes, when I say "timeless," I mean that the suit will be shot to hell (fabric worn, size too small) before it might be relegated to the back of the closet for styling reasons.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
 Obviously in year 5000 A.D. the most classic Savile Row work will probably be dated (but who knows).  .
Let's hope so. I'm already sick of suits and it's only 2005.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Quote:
(johnnynorman3 @ Mar. 21 2005,08:15)  Obviously in year 5000 A.D. the most classic Savile Row work will probably be dated (but who knows).  .
Let's hope so.  I'm already sick of suits and it's only 2005.
Why? IMO the suit is the only type of daily business wear that truly flatters most middle-age and older men. In addition, contrary to popular belief -- and popular execution -- the suit and tie afford a man the most ability to dress creatively. I'm sick of the plain charcoal suit with white button down and red repp stripe tie as you probably are, Lydia. But to then parlay that into an assault against the concept of a suit is to rail against business casual wear by saying you are sick of the khaki pants and button down french blue shirt getup.
post #28 of 29
I'd also say to get the Black Label suit if you like the style and fit. Unless you are hard to fit in RTW, you'll probably be much happier with a Black Label altered to fit you than having a close approximation done by a tailor who may be unaccustomed to the style you want, and who may not be able to incorporate every single feature on your list. WW Chan is flexible, but they cannot match every detail and nuance that a customer may want. You can dictate some changes from their house style, but walking in to their shop with a full set of specifications is a bit like walking into a good restaurant with your Grandmother's signature recipe and expecting them to cook it exactly the way she did. It might be close, but something will always be a bit off. Also, it's easier to work with WW Chan on modifications once you have had a pattern made and are happy with that fit. Then you can go back to them and point out the aspects of the suit you want changed.
post #29 of 29
You posted about feeling discouraged from some of the feedback here. I, for one, really appreciated your post. It has helped me think through a lot of my inchoate worries about eventually doing a bespoke or MTM suit. One of them is that I'll overdetermine what I want and end up frustrated because communication breaks down. I'd argue that both your process in creating that list and the forum's feedback were useful exercises. The good thing about your thesis is that you looked at and thought about a lot of different styles and ideas that you wanted. The bad thing about it is that you combined a number of these details from different garment types in order to create a 'supergarment' and therefore got a somewhat negative reaction from the cognoscenti. In the end there is no "˜supergarment'. The different preferences that people on the forum have for little details (barchetta pockets and Neapolitan sleeves, longer roll and larger lapels, narrow lapels and slim fit) are preferences based on an overall look and balance. Combining all of these details is likely to: a) confuse the tailor; b) create a mongrel look. Doing this first step of coming up with the ultimate list of tricks and neat features was valuable as a forcing mechanism for your own thoughts and desires. In the end, though, you are trying to do too much with a list that long no matter what details you choose. It would overwhelm anyone. The purpose of your list is to clearly spell out your thoughts in order to communicate with the tailor. What you share with Chan's (or any craftsman) should not be all the chapters of your thesis (which are, in part, a demonstration to yourself that you have done your homework) but rather the distilled vision that sums up the 'logic' of your garment. Getting to that clarity requires creating (or choosing) a single image to guide your discussion. This is the cornerstone garment - the basic look you are going for. Pick one image that you feel best conveys the look that you are going for - maybe it is a Black Label suit, maybe it is something else. That single image can be the starting point for a discussion - a little more form here, a little less roll there, etc. That image can also be a single 'leave behind' for the tailor - he'll look at it (and his marks on it from your discussion) and share it with the others who will be involved in production. At the end of the day you are one of many customers and there is only so much mind-space (and space in the filing cabinet) that your garment will occupy, particularly at the price point and volume that Chan deal in. In the best of all possible worlds, you'd take Luc's suggestion and try drawing what you want and taking a good look at it. You might do this just with a grease pencil on one of the photos you like best. This creates a clear visual representation for yourself and the tailors.
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