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post #31 of 50
For a garment to just knock around in, Carlo Barbera cloth might be over-the-top, and other "lesser" cloth, no pun intended, should be fine, such as that discussed here. However, in the context of pride of ownership, Barbera cloth is non pareil. Grayson
post #32 of 50
I met with Patrick Chu from WW Chan today. I asked him about the VBC or Loro Piana 120s/130s vs. Charles Clayton 150s that they have on special. He said that despite the higher count, the Charles Clayton (which is 270 grams) is likely to be superior in longevity and wrinkle resistance, being a 2 x 2 cloth, i.e. 4 ply, as opposed to 2 x 1 or 3 ply like the VBC or Loro Piana.
post #33 of 50
Arg. I asked him the same question about Clayton vs. some other fabrics and got the opposite answer. At the time, I didn't know anything about 2x1, 2x2, ply, etc. dan
post #34 of 50
I like my VBC suit from Chan. It has a very smooth and fine hand. It also is a very tight weave -- certainly tighter than my Loro Piana suit IMO. Whether it will wear out or wrinkle more quickly than a 2x2 sturdier English cloth is sort of irrelevant to me -- I don't see it wearing out from wear anytime soon, and it does not give any indication that it will pill or go out of shape. It's not a 20 year suit, but it should give me at least 5 - 6 years of very good service, I'd think.
post #35 of 50
Quote:
I like my VBC suit from Chan.  It has a very smooth and fine hand.  It also is a very tight weave -- certainly tighter than my Loro Piana suit IMO.  Whether it will wear out or wrinkle more quickly than a 2x2 sturdier English cloth is sort of irrelevant to me -- I don't see it wearing out from wear anytime soon, and it does not give any indication that it will pill or go out of shape.  It's not a 20 year suit, but it should give me at least 5 - 6 years of very good service, I'd think.
I like my VBC worsted suits from Chan as well (I have 4 of them) and they've held up nicely over time. I have in the past had some RTW suits made from lighter weight VBC cloths in more open weaves, and those have seemed to go shiny on the contact areas, or lose some of the initial luster and punch, within a couple of years of pretty frequent wear. I haven't worn any of my VBC Chan suits as much as the old ones. With VBC not being on a $730/suit special this time around, the price of the VBC suits is similar to the Clayton 150s, which is why I thought I'd try the Clayton this time around. Holland & Sherry 120s (or was it 130s) was about $1050 or $1100/suit and it didn't seem nicer than the Clayton, which IIRC was about 10 grams heavier. I have no idea why Patrick would have given opposing viewpoints on the same issue, other than perhaps going back to his vendor for info after fielding lots of questions from OCD forumistas like us . . .
post #36 of 50
Quote:
I have no idea why Patrick would have given opposing viewpoints on the same issue, other than perhaps going back to his vendor for info after fielding lots of questions from OCD forumistas like us . . .
I would hope it's a communication issue.  I've never found him to push a certain fabric or style for a sale and I'd hate for this to be an example of that. dan
post #37 of 50
Different mills, weavers, and distributors of textiles use varying terminology to describe their cloth and so one can go a bit batty trying to find out for certain the true nature of their cloth, unless you test the cloth yourself:  One might use "2x2", while another might use "4 ply".  4 ply cloth is, technically, composed of 4 strands interlaced with 4 strands (4x4), while 2x2 is is made with 2 strands interlaced with 2 strands.  However, many firms, and actual weavers both small and large, refer to 2x2 cloth as 4 ply.  4x4 would be 8 ply.  I've come across true 4x4 (8 ply) cloth, however it is overkill.  2x2 cloth, for practical purposes, will be the most readily available of the higher plies.  Lesser's cloth, of which most of my suits are made, for what it's worth, is customarily 2x2 cloth for a good part of their most popular ranges, such as 10 oz, 11/12 oz, and 13 oz.  This is all somewhat arcane, perhaps, to most people.  For cloth that holds up throughout the day without wrinkling and crumpling, 2x2 is optimal for me, which is one reason I gravitate to Lesser's offerings (Among other factors).  However your mileage may vary. Grayson
post #38 of 50
Quote:
VBC not being on a $730/suit special this time around
Interesting. Chan charges locals more.
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Quote:
VBC not being on a $730/suit special this time around
Interesting. Chan charges locals more.
They have one fabric line on special for each US trip, and the price applies only to orders made in the US. This time was Charles Clayton for $910 USD, at a saving of $390 off the full price. VBC suits are normally more than $900, but on many trips to the US they have offered them for $730.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Quote:
(benchan @ Mar. 23 2005,08:10) Quote VBC not being on a $730/suit special this time around
Interesting. Chan charges locals more.
They have one fabric line on special for each US trip, and the price applies only to orders made in the US.  This time was Charles Clayton for $910 USD, at a saving of $390 off the full price.  VBC suits are normally more than $900, but on many trips to the US they have offered them for $730.[/quote] I was in HK two weeks ago and got measured for a Chan suit. I picked a charcoal VBC 130 and it cost me around $910. Despite the apparent low-quality of VBC as indicated in this thread (), I can't wait to get the suit in the mail..
post #41 of 50
It's not low quality cloth by any means. Lisapop was just noting that it isn't Lessor/Barbera quality. I think VBC is great -- it has a nice hand, they have some great patterns, its got a pretty tight weave, and I haven't noticed any flaws in the fabric I have. VBC doesn't hype itself, or charge, like Loro Piana. I think that's the real gripe here -- that Loro Piana prices itself consistent with the higher quality English fabrics and its really just a charade that is built upon their very high quality cashmere and LPs penchant for buying the finest bundles of Tasmanian wool for publicity purposes.
post #42 of 50
Guys, VBC cloth is perfectly fine cloth for your purposes with Chan or another tailor.  My tailor in NY, who gets upwards of $4K for a suit, has VBC swatch books at his shop.  When I originally posted it is "inferior", the context of that perhaps glib judgement was in comparison to Lesser, which to me is among the very best.  Still, being down a few notches from the best ain't bad.  It's all relative. Ask a Ferrari owner about Maserati and he'll scoff. Still, I wouldn't mind having a Maserati,which is generally less expensive than its cousin. And, truth be told, a case can be made that Lesser cloth, which can cost as much as a Chan suit itself, might be overkill, with VBC cloth being more appropriate.  I just happen to put my clothes through the paces each day and so the added strength of a "2x2" cloth is more durable for my purposes.  Also, candidly, I'm older than many of you, and you're way ahead of where I was at your ages, so a custom Chan suit, or one from another moderately-priced tailor, using VBC cloth is something I was just dreaming about back then.    Wear your VBC suits with pride.       Grayson
post #43 of 50
May I ask the obvious question at this point: How the hell did Mr. Grayson get banned? Is he not the kindest, most learned gentleman on this board? I would like to toast the return of Mr. Grayson to our Forum.
post #44 of 50
Thanks, but, truth be told, I should have been banned. Trying for a little redemption now Grayson
post #45 of 50
I might add quickly that my tailor in NY, whose impeccable taste in cloth and vast experience in tailoring I greatly admire, has access to literally dozens of cloth companies, but due to the constraints of space in New York, combined with the demands of a selective clientele, and, finally, a price point that commands only the finest cloth, he has edited out all but the best names in cloth.  The fact that VBC passes muster with him, among just a small handful of other resources, is indicative of VBC's quality.  That some of their cloth has one fewer strand in a 2x1 weave configuration vs. a 2x2 weave is so esoteric and far afield for normal, everyday use that the vast majority of people should not be concerned about it.  It's an issue more of relevance to someone in the textile sciences.   Grayson
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