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Vitale Barberis Cahttp://www.vitalebarberiscnonico

post #1 of 50
3/18/05 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
My local tailor has swatch books of Super 120s wool and cashmere from an Italian woolen mill called Vitale Barberis Canonico. The material has a fine hand and seems to be of good quality. I looked the mill up on Google. http://www.vitalebarberiscanonico.it/ The brand seems legitimate, but I've never heard of it. My tailor said their products are equal to Scabal or Zegna. Just wondering if any forum members know of this mill or have had any items of clothing made from this company's cloth. I'm considering getting some trousers made from this cloth. Thanks
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post #2 of 50
3/18/05 at 2:19pm
Actually, not to break your heart, but it's an inferior cloth, as is much of the over-hyped cloth from Italy (e.g. Loro Piana), and elsewhere.  Reason being that the cloth is not 4 ply, which is the benchmark for quality.  It is 3 ply.  4 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and 2 fibers in width.  3 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and just 1 fiber in width, resulting in cloth that tends to wrinkle and crumple.  It's a way of cutting corners and charging a lot of money. I believe that's called progess. This brand is not to be confused with Carlo Barbera, which is among the finest cloth, distributed by Lesser in the UK.  I proudly own several garments made from the superb Barbera range.   Grayson
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post #3 of 50
3/18/05 at 2:38pm
Quote:
 It is 3 ply.  4 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and 2 fibers in width.  3 ply cloth is comprised of 2 fibers in length and just 1 fiber in width, resulting in cloth that tends to wrinkle and crumple.  
This is interesting, how can I tell if a fabric is x Ply, where x is integer?
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post #4 of 50
3/18/05 at 2:46pm
When you examine a sample of cloth, you can try to untwist the fibers. If there are 2 fibers twisted together, they'll untwist, but if there is just 1 fiber, it, of course, will not untwist. Grayson
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post #5 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:07pm
FWIW - Barbera and Barberis are priced differently as well. Of the BIG valley mills in Biella I think VB makes some of the nicer fabrics but they are a totally different critter than what Carlo Barbera makes. Pricewise a 120's from Carlo Barbera is 2.5 times what it would be from VB or the other mills that due large scale production. Carlo Barbera only produces about 10-15% of what the others do each year and the Who's Who list in Italy buys up their best stuff. SHould you decide to set reason aside and make a suit or trousers from pure cashmere, Barbera's worsted cashmere is very, very good stuff and doesn't abrade like cheaper ones. Note - when I say that CB is far more expensive I am not suggesting that they are overpriced in the slightest. They are worth every penny. Don't confuse Viale Barberis or Carlo Barbera with Joseph Barbera. Joseph Barbera was the bespoke tailor who dressed such luminaries as Scooby Doo, Yogi Bear, George Jetson, Magilla Gorilla and Fred Flintstone along with his alterations guy, William Hanna.
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post #6 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:11pm
Actually I was thinking about having Chan make me a summer beige suit of VB 130s. Are you telling me not to bother?
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post #7 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:17pm
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SHould you decide to set reason aside and make a suit or trousers from pure cashmere, Barbera's worsted cashmere is very, very good stuff and doesn't abrade like cheaper ones.
Actually, the Carlo Barbera range of cloth for Lesser I've used is lambswool, which has advantages over cashmere: It has a softness that closely approximates that of cashmere (due to the lanolin content), yet given it's not cashmere, it will not stretch over time as cashmere tends to do. Several people have felt my Barbera lambswool jackets and have purred, "Oooh, cashmere". Grayson
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post #8 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:17pm
My experience is considerably less broad and more pedestrian than Grayson's, and I'm sure his evaluation of Vitale Barberis relative to Carlo Barbera is accurate.  That said, I have several items of clothing made from Vitale Barberis 130's that I'm quite happy with relative to my other clothes (Loro Piana, mid-range RTW, etc).  At its price point, I don't think Vitale Barberis is a bad choice. Not to hijack the thread or anything (well, maybe a little), but it would be interesting to see an assessment of cloths at different price points.  The same has been done for RTW suits, shirts, and shoes, but seldom is cloth discussed in the same way. dan
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post #9 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you all. I knew forum members would likely have an answer to my question. Mr Grayson - My tailor also compared the cloth to that of Loro Piana. He said he could make me a pair of trousers of VB Super 120's for $275. Am I being taken? Always appreciate your knowledge.
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post #10 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Actually I was thinking about having Chan make me a summer beige suit of VB 130s. Are you telling me not to bother?
With the wide array of cloth available to you, you can do better. Check out the better English cloth. Grayson
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post #11 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:32pm
Quote:
My tailor also compared the cloth to that of Loro Piana. He said he could make me a pair of trousers of VB Super 120's for $275. Am I being taken?
$275 is a very reasonable price for custom trousers, at a time when some high-end brands get that price and more for ready-made trousers, so I don't think you're being taken advantage of. I just happen to have a preference for English cloth, which, dollar for dollar, I feel represents a better long-term value and offers a higher degree of comfort and durability. There's an abundance of quality cloth out there and so you needn't get locked into one kind. Just my $.02 Grayson
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post #12 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:37pm
Apropos this thread, for your reading pleasure... http://www.italydaily.it/Italian....s.shtml Grayson
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post #13 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Not to hijack the thread or anything (well, maybe a little), but it would be interesting to see an assessment of cloths at different price points. The same has been done for RTW suits, shirts, and shoes, but seldom is cloth discussed in the same way. dan
Mr. Grayson - thanks. I too like English cloths. I have two sport coats made with H&S cloth and they wear beautifully. I too would like to see a discussion of cloths.
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post #14 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:38pm
Quote:
dah328 Posted on Mar. 18 2005,10:17 My experience is considerably less broad and more pedestrian than Grayson's, and I'm sure his evaluation of Vitale Barberis relative to Carlo Barbera is accurate.  That said, I have several items of clothing made from Vitale Barberis 130's that I'm quite happy with relative to my other clothes (Loro Piana, mid-range RTW, etc).  At its price point, I don't think Vitale Barberis is a bad choice. Not to hijack the thread or anything (well, maybe a little), but it would be interesting to see an assessment of cloths at different price points.  The same has been done for RTW suits, shirts, and shoes, but seldom is cloth discussed in the same way. dan
I started a thread on a similar topic a little while back. I collected the names of all the fabric manufacturers (and sellers) I could find on the forum, and then asked for input. What follows is the graded list. It should be noted that Teir 3 doesn't mean bad, just not as good as Teirs 1 and 2. The cloth within each teir is listed randomly, although Teir 3 is roughly ordered by quality. Again, all of this is based on feedback I got from other threads, so please feel free to move stuff around and add prices. Teir 1: Moxon Huddersfield Dormuiel Scabal H. Lessor Holland & Sherry Teir 2: Carlo Barbera Guabello JJ Minnis Fox Brothers Harrisons Charles Clayton Bower Roebuck Teir 3: Vitale Barberis Canonico Reda Piacenza Policarpo Zegna Cerruti Wain Shiell Reid & Taylor Smiths Loro Piana Taylor & Lodge William Halstead
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post #15 of 50
3/18/05 at 3:41pm
More reading pleasure, regarding Carlo Barbera (prepare to salivate now.)... http://www.carlobarbera.it Grayson
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