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Let's abolish religion! - Page 11

post #151 of 158
12/31/08 at 8:02pm
Let religion stay. Let's abolish pride and jealousy, instead.
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post #152 of 158
12/31/08 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post
Morality and social cohesion is what's kept people and other social animals alive.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. I suspect morality is really just a form of etiquette, a means for people to get along with one another. If there were only one person on earth, morality would largely no longer exist.
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post #153 of 158
1/1/09 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan Jr. View Post
Morality exists in the animal kingdom? You mean to tell me lions perform ritual exercises before each hunt? Takum the lion philosopher passed down code of ethics guiding the lives of other lions? And they can gather around a fire to intelligently expound on ethics beyond their geopolitical domain?

Suppose lions can do all this. Then, to follow your argument, they get all of this from their ancestors and rather than religion. If this were true, where's the evidence that such physical knowledge exists? Surely, not by oral communication alone? Or perhaps you mean to tell us you're Dr. Dolittle and can communicate with animals? Sorry buddy, I can't walk with you any further than this.

Animals may not waste their time with ritual and prayer, however there is altruism. Some of the non-human primates display as desire to help those in need when there is no evidence that this will have any benefit to them. Most people would consider this evidence of morality.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625085134.htm

Maybe they are religious chimpanzees rather than secular ones!
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post #154 of 158
1/1/09 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxcats View Post
Animals may not waste their time with ritual and prayer, however there is altruism. Some of the non-human primates display as desire to help those in need when there is no evidence that this will have any benefit to them. Most people would consider this evidence of morality.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625085134.htm

Maybe they are religious chimpanzees rather than secular ones!

This is another natural instinct, animals travel in packs not because they are "morally" inclined for the strong to protect the weak but they know that numbers make them stronger.

Following this logic saving a friend or a partner will protect you in the future. It is a natural behaviour that many animals would never survive without. If elephants did not help each other defend against predators they would be extinct by now because 1 on 1 (especially children and females) they are not fit to fight off fast, carnivorous predators.
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post #155 of 158
1/1/09 at 6:30am
Ok!!!! Great!!!!!!
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post #156 of 158
1/1/09 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeitaloud View Post
Blah blah blah

Imagine how much saner the world would be without these people who are so hardheaded about religion they become almost intolerable to interact with, and how much more productive we could be without wasting our time.

By not wasting my time on this thread, I have freed myself for a very productive late night.
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post #157 of 158
1/1/09 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
With 1,100 posts I think you deserve a productive late night
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post #158 of 158
1/1/09 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeitaloud View Post
This is another natural instinct, animals travel in packs not because they are "morally" inclined for the strong to protect the weak but they know that numbers make them stronger.

Following this logic saving a friend or a partner will protect you in the future. It is a natural behaviour that many animals would never survive without. If elephants did not help each other defend against predators they would be extinct by now because 1 on 1 (especially children and females) they are not fit to fight off fast, carnivorous predators.

If you actually read the link I included, you will see that the chimps involved helped unrelated humans and conspecifics. If this is simply based on instinct and is a natural behavior, I propose the same is true with humans. After all, chimps are closely related to us which makes looking at their behaviors particularly relevant. I believe religions (not just Abrahamic religion) likely reinforce some of these behaviors in humans, but I believe that altruistic behavior came first, NOT religion. Religion also carries a lot of other not-so-good baggage with it; it pits US against THEM. I believe that is also part of the reason for the existence of religion in the first place; it creates a type of tribal unity.
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