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Let's abolish religion! - Page 2

post #16 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan Jr. View Post
Religion was necessary as a part of evolutionary adaptation, and to this day, it continues to function in this role. In fact, it is necessary to our survival. Your "atheism" is not any different than another "religion" just that it shares a different interpretation of your beliefs. Now, there tons of other atheists out there reinforcing your beliefs. Russians, and everyone in the Soviet Bloc, had been atheists at one point or another. Try believe in something that you know for sure no other people share your view and come back here in society and present to me a tentative argument that your religion of one is somehow crucial to your survival.

I agree that religion played/plays a part in our evolution. I think I made that clear in my first post. I will not go so far as to say it is NECESSARY to our survival, but it does help form strong tribal bonds. This has nothing what-so-ever to do with my lack of belief in gods. I would like to believe that my parents and loved ones will live forever; wishing something is true does not make it so. Even if I was sure belief in gods were essential for human survival, I wouldn't believe such beings exist.

Atheism is not a religion. I simply do not believe in the supernatural at all. It isn't a choice; I just don't. I could pretend and just keep quiet; that was my approach when I was growing up in the South. It is not socially acceptable to be an atheist there. It is absurd to "create" a religion out of an absence of belief in something. What is the religion of ALL people that don't believe in reincarnation; should I ask a Hindu? Dawkins is an atheist and I certainly don't embrace much of what he says (he does not believe religion has evolutionary/survival advantage and I do). The only thing I have in common with him is lack of belief in gods; what is the survival value there, the tribal bond, the evolutionary advantage, the RELIGION.
post #17 of 158
The Hitchens vs Mcgrath debate on YT is interesting. As are others with the Hitch on this subject. He destroys his opponents, of course.
post #18 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan Jr. View Post
my point exactly. Read everything you could on Soviet / communism (practical not theoretical) and atheism and make your conclusion.

If you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him.
post #19 of 158
I can't. He knows Kung Fu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red View Post
If you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him.
post #20 of 158
Religion has been almost abolished in America. Our kids are not allowed to Pray in schools, its not called Christmas vacation anymore for fear of offending someone. I say screw em! someone is offended? TOO BAD! get over it, thats life!
Without religion we might as well bring back the tower of babel, and sodom and gommorah, and live in sheer lawlessness, with pinko/commies running the world.
Without religion, you leftists out there better start believing in The right to bear arms, because for most people, religion is is only thing keeping them from commiting crimes against other people.
post #21 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek View Post
religion is is only thing keeping them from commiting crimes against other people.
do you actually believe this? if so please prove it
post #22 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek View Post
......because for most people, religion is is only thing keeping them from commiting crimes against other people.
For reals? I'm not religious, yet it still seems morally wrong to kill someone. You think the fear of some imaginary guy in the sky stops people from doing shit? They just go confess the next day and are absolved, us heathens don't have that luxury. We rely on keeping our social reputation intact, and we don't have a deity to blame or point our guilt at when we do something wrong.
post #23 of 158
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek View Post
Religion has been almost abolished in America. Our kids are not allowed to Pray in schools, its not called Christmas vacation anymore for fear of offending someone. I say screw em! someone is offended? TOO BAD! get over it, thats life! Without religion we might as well bring back the tower of babel, and sodom and gommorah, and live in sheer lawlessness, with pinko/commies running the world. Without religion, you leftists out there better start believing in The right to bear arms, because for most people, religion is is only thing keeping them from commiting crimes against other people.
Wow this is just what I'm talking about...First of all why did you capitalize the word pray? Religion in schools is like the final step...remember residential schools, how'd they work out? In my experience religion barely has any effect on the law and moral doings, jail however does. Just to clear this up, are you trolling? On another note I disagree that religion was the start of laws. Laws originated from early sociology based on how people interacted. The basic idea is retribution and restitution. If you do something and the other person has a problem with it, then the other person will get one or the other. Masturbation is a sin in some religions, and you don't see it being illegal because it does no harm.
post #24 of 158
Damn. I thought this thread was going to be intelligent.

It's another unstoppable force vs. immovable object debate.
post #25 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek View Post
Religion has been almost abolished in America. Our kids are not allowed to Pray in schools, its not called Christmas vacation anymore for fear of offending someone. I say screw em! someone is offended? TOO BAD! get over it, thats life!
Without religion we might as well bring back the tower of babel, and sodom and gommorah, and live in sheer lawlessness, with pinko/commies running the world.
Without religion, you leftists out there better start believing in The right to bear arms, because for most people, religion is is only thing keeping them from commiting crimes against other people.

Actually the united states is far and away the most religious of the world's most developed countries.

That will change as the education system in the united states improves.

We don't need to abolish religion, we simply need more americans to be educated, then the disease of religion will take care of itself.

The argument that religion prevents anarchy is laughable, especially when you mention gun violence. Look at many of the countries in the EU, where religion is an afterthought. Then compare their gun violence to ours. I'd say that the ignorance and stupidity necessary to believe in some inept fairy tale is precisely what one needs to facilitate a culture of gun violence.
post #26 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by longskate88 View Post
For reals? I'm not religious, yet it still seems morally wrong to kill someone. You think the fear of some imaginary guy in the sky stops people from doing shit? They just go confess the next day and are absolved, us heathens don't have that luxury. We rely on keeping our social reputation intact, and we don't have a deity to blame or point our guilt at when we do something wrong.

That is exactly how I feel on the subject.
post #27 of 158
A world w/o religion would have far fewer hospitals, schools, orphanages, soup kitchens, thrift stores, counselors, conflict negotiators, community organizers, homes for various social outcasts (elderly, mentally and physically handicapped, delinquent kids), etc.. The world might not even have any of these things since most if not all of the secular versions of these originated through religion. In a way, the world, particularly the West, is far less religious than it was. This is true if we measure external aspects of religion such as membership roles and church attendance. However, in a crucial way, religion is more influential now than it ever was, since it's values have become the unquestioned values of secular society. Human life, love, self-sacrifice, fairness, honesty, service, etc. are viewed as more precious now than they were 100 or 1000 years ago, imo. These things are the real core of religion, not terrorism, etc. And if people live by these things, I'm all for it -- even if it comes with a decline in people who self-identify as religious. Of course, I believe that the best way is to have both.
post #28 of 158
As much as I dislike organised religion and make believe saviors, I would not want religion abolished.

Frivolties and arbitrary details are what make life enjoyable. Utilatarianism is the most bleak and horrid excuse for existence ever. Music, art and architecture were all inspired by various beliefs.

This very forum is a reason to applaud religions and it's pointless rituals. We value clothes a great deal, perhaps as much as some people value their religion. But in the end, there doesn't need to be a difference in clothing styles, right? Everyone can just wear a white one piece jump-suit in the summer and a black one piece in the winter and call it a day.

Hey, we don't need to pointlessly cook our foods using wonderful spices and various cooking methods. We really just need basic tasteless meals that provide nutrients.

Yes, religion does have many bad points and is used as a tool to do bad things, but really, it needs to exist. It's part of what makes us human. You don't have to believe in it, but life is about finding the small things that make your life worth living. For many, religion can be one of those details. An intellectual belief in an afterlife and a divine entity.

I value the things religion has inspired in the world, while at the same time loathing the horrid things that pretend to do things in it's name.

If you think terrorism will stop without religion, you're wrong. There will always be terrorists and their will always be bad people in general. People are clever (read: stupid) and will find another (read: any) reason to fight or destroy.
post #29 of 158
Only if abolishing the church of government is part of the package deal. Seriously, religion is voluntary, and religious people generally choose to be so because they believe it makes them better. Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't, but if they are happier that way, I think it is great.
post #30 of 158
jesus christ the posts in this thread are so fucking long. I didn't read any if them, so yeah whatevs sounds great, but srsly, too much words.
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