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Multi-fold Neckties: a photographic survey of what's real and what's not - Page 3

post #31 of 150
12/22/08 at 4:29pm
^^^^^ I lollered myself to death. New candidate for best post of the year.
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post #32 of 150
12/22/08 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Are you following me so far? We'll pause just a few seconds since you are Belgian.

Onward.
- B


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post #33 of 150
12/22/08 at 4:33pm
That's what I thought. Ties are so complex. jackets are simple.

FYI; I am Macedonian, wife is Belgian. Some people think I am Greek and my wife is French but that made my daughter to be a Freek. I pretend to be Belgian on the innernetz. It is my small time persona.
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post #34 of 150
12/22/08 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
How good is your math?

I am going to try to answer this as carefully as I can.

At one time, it was assumed:



Where L is the minimum possible length of the material, t is material thickness, and n is the number of folds possible in one direction.

L and t need to be expressed using the same units.

We can represent one aspect of this figuratively, to help you visualize:



Are you following me so far? We'll pause just a few seconds since you are Belgian.

Onward.

The limit was always assumed to be eight times because of this.

About eight years ago, a young high school girl upended this long assumed equation, and derived the following:



Wow, right?

This equation gives the width "W" of a square piece of material needed to fold a piece of material "n" times, by folding in alternate directions. The actual equation for alternate folding is more complicated, but this relatively simple formula gives a bound that can not be exceeded and is quite close to the actual limit. For material that is not square, the above equation still gives an accurate limit. If the material is 2:1 in length to width ratio, imagine it folded one time making it twice as thick "t" and then use the above formula remembering that one extra fold is added.

We, thus, now assume generally that 12 times is the limit. Therefore, Bijan might have reached nearly there with 11.

If anyone can do it, Bijan can.


- B

Way to derail your own thread. Nicely done.
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post #35 of 150
12/22/08 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimslade View Post
Way to derail your own thread. Nicely done.

It's nearly 3:30PM EST...shouldn't you be at USPS returning shoes?

- B
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post #36 of 150
12/22/08 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimslade View Post
Way to derail your own thread. Nicely done.

One of the funniest posts on SF in recent memory.
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post #37 of 150
12/22/08 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
It's nearly 3:30PM EST...shouldn't you be at USPS returning shoes?

- B

I decided to keep a pair. But in any case, I simply deliver the boxes to the mail room. Those guys love me.
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post #38 of 150
12/22/08 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
That's what I thought. Ties are so complex. jackets are simple.

FYI; I am Macedonian, wife is Belgian. Some people think I am Greek and my wife is French but that made my daughter to be a Freek.

Beldonian has a more 22nd century feel.

- B
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post #39 of 150
12/22/08 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Beldonian has a more 22nd century feel.

- B

Word
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post #40 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:11pm
In Italy it seems like the general rule is to call any lined 6-fold a 7-fold, which is what I think creates much of the confusion. When I started looking for a tailor to make my neckties in Italy I said I wanted to create a lined 6-fold and they didnt know what I was talking about. It could have been my poor Italian (and when I say poor what I really mean to say is non-existent) but when I sent them the pattern I had created they understood immediately and called it a 7-fold. What this really does is just make things confusing and in the end requires countless threads to be created about what a true 6 fold is or what a true 7 fold is. Then of course to make things even more confusing you have the TJ Max 6 and 7 folds that only have the folds at the tip and the tail and dont really run the full length of the tie.
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post #41 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIEALIGN View Post
In Italy it seems like the general rule is to call any lined 6-fold a 7-fold, which is what I think creates much of the confusion.

Well, it is probably the same dolce vita imprecision for sette pieghe in Italian ties as it is for "Goodyear" welting in Italian shoes.

The most imporant difference for me is this: is the tie lined or not? If it is not lined, and if the material is not robust like a wool, cashmere or linen, then it will certainly have to be folded more than three times. How many times? Well, pick a number.

If I take a well-made, lined three-fold...say a Drake's or Nicky...a lined six-fold tie is more similar to that Drake's or Nicky than it is to an unlined tie. That six-fold will knot and resist wrinkling like a good old three-fold. The merits are compelling. I am convinced this is a reason why lined, tipped six-folds are the most popular multi-fold tie: the feel is rather familiar.

Compounding this is that an unlined tie, seven-fold or not, is likely to have an untipped point. No matter how carefully sewn, the handsewn edges will be more organic, and not as precise as a typical machine finished edge on a normal three-fold and on the typical lined six-fold. The point is going to flop around more.

Overall, that unlined, untipped multi-fold tie--so rare--is also going to feel the most alien to many men. Discomfort in style is inelegance courted. Is it supple...or sloppy?

But...if that unlined, untipped multi-fold tie speaks to you: très soigné. It's a special thing.


- B
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post #42 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimslade View Post
Way to derail your own thread. Nicely done.

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post #43 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:37pm
Wow... thanks for setting the record straight
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post #44 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:41pm
Great post!
And I can't describe the disappointment when I got my Seaward & Stearn "VII Fold" and discovered that it's not anywhere near a real 7 fold
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post #45 of 150
12/22/08 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
If I take a well-made, lined three-fold...say a Drake's or Nicky...a lined six-fold tie is more similar to that Drake's or Nicky than it is to an unlined tie. That six-fold will knot and resist wrinkling like a good old three-fold. The merits are compelling. I am convinced this is a reason why lined, tipped six-folds are the most popular multi-fold tie: the feel is rather familiar.

This is why I went with the lined 6-fold construction. I think unlined 7-folds are quite beautiful and unique but not the best choice for many.
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