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Demise of the 7-fold - Page 4

post #46 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian278 View Post
Yay for elitism!

+1
post #47 of 127
This is why I wear a 14 fold - actually two 7 folds spliced together by Eric Glennie.

I wanted a 28 fold but I had neck pain and difficulty looking down.
post #48 of 127
Concern about what the masses are wearing is so dreadfully common.

And, really, Dillard's?

And then to confess it on a public forum, to boot!
post #49 of 127
Mr. Krull, did your father, by chance, own a small manufacturing concern?

I have to wonder how seriously we should entertain the inflammatory comments of one with such a conspicuous connection to a self-important aesthete turned confidence man.

If you have nothing but straight-forward intentions, I can't help but think it a shame, really. Such apt names are not easy to come by.
post #50 of 127
Felix, Don't worry all is well. There is a huge difference in the fit and finish and silk of a beautiful 7-fold or any tie when compared to discount ties. So discount 7-folds may be available but they are not as nice construction and value wise as many 3-folds. I have no idea why some makers call 6-folds 7-folds but I am very happy that those who read forums tend to know the difference and most likely they will spread this information so that sales clerks also know soon.... As for the difference between lined and unlined ties or 3 vs 6 vs 7-folds it is a matter of personal taste. I wear a mix of different constructions and I like them all. The difference between some lined ties in the number of folds can be very small. For example we opened up a very beautiful Borelli tie for a client and reshaped the tie and put it back together. I counted something like 6 standard size folds and a couple more tiny ones so while the tie looked and felt like a lined 6-fold it really was a 7-fold tie or maybe an 8-fold I don't remember as it was not important. We have a very practical reason for supporting accurate construction titles: We actually make ties and when someone is used to the feel of a lined six-fold but orders a bespoke/custom made 7-fold in error they will not be happy. Often there is a preference for weight in a tie and this can be achieved with extra interlining but the drape will not be the same as a lined 6-fold. And of course an unlined 7-fold will be entirely different in feeling. In England it is very common to add an extra layer of cotton on top of a wool interlining for extra thickness without the weight. In the end a luxury tie is about the quality of the fabric, the fit and finish and only a few stores will provide you with the option of a luxury bespoke/custom made tie. So on your next trip to Europe please visit Charvet or Marinella or wander small towns and find unkown small bespoke tie makers who are still here and there. When I was last in Lyon 5 or 6 years ago I made friends with a tie maker just off the main street. I remember him because in addition to standard Como silk he used silk from Lyon also for a few of his ties.
post #51 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Do you own any Kiton? Because if you do, odds are 99% that you are wearing a lined six or four fold. Even their untipped three folds in wool or linen will often have a bit of lining in them. I'm not sure what you mean by "proper drape." A lined three fold is entirely "proper," whatever that means in this context. The different forms of construction can lead to a different feel, however, although there is considerable overlap in outcome among the different construction techniques. - B
Exactly correct.
post #52 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Krull View Post
I quite concur with this gentleman's astute assessment of the artistry present in the 7-fold tie. It is precisely the difficulty in making them and the large quantities of silk needed to produce them that make them so special to own and to wear. Linings are the worst thing to happen to neckwear with the possible exception of clip-ons. I refuse to own a lined tie since I've never found one that has proper drape to it.
Many mass market ties have polyster or poly mix interlinings so in a way you are correct... However, when a tie maker spends time thinking about the correct interlining which will almost always be a combed pure wool specially woven for ties the drape of a lined tie will be very nice and on a windy day better than an unlined tie - smiling....
post #53 of 127
I'm surprised no one has compared 6/7/8/9 fold ties to 3/4/5 bladed razors. All are nice, and all certainly get the job done well.
post #54 of 127
I've had one Daniel Cremieux 'seven fold' tie and it was terrible, as hard as a cardboard kipper
post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
........A lined true seven-fold is likely to be very bulky tie.

I have a few lined 7s from a former AAAC member and tie broker............
They are very substantial pieces of silk indeed!
post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zegnamtl View Post
I have a few lined 7s from a former AAAC member and tie broker............
They are very substantial pieces of silk indeed!

Pix or it never happened

Seriously though thats probably more a function of the silk used than the Lining although of course with a substantial silk a lining would put it over the top in bulk.
post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlin View Post
So what about Borrelli? I've a couple of Borrelli ties that are supposedly seven fold. Any idea if they are real seven folds? Thanks...


Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
All the ones that I have seen are lined sixes.......

- B

B, you are (as always ) correct.

When I visited borrelli last year they told me they only make a true seven fold on special request from a given client. It is not a standard run item. The bulk of the run was just plain old common tie making and not even "double four" or "six fold".
I did buy one true seven fold Borrelli in Rome, it has a very thin liner and is a lovely tie with great silk.

Felix, the funny thing about all this is, have you ever had a chick flip your tie over and gasp in horror as she discovers it is not a seven and storm out of dinner? or maybe the bigger question is, have you ever had a chick at all...........


Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Krull View Post
While I was meandering through Dillards, to my shock and dismay, I noticed that they are now selling 7-fold ties there under the Daniel Cremieux label. To add insult to injury, they had many of them marked down 50% off from the original $120 price point.

One of the best kept secrets in all of men's fashion is now readily available to any college student willing to plunk down $60 for their big day at the career fair. I felt like I was going to be sick. Five years ago, the only two makers of 7-folds that were readily available were from Kiton or R. Talbott. Not anymore, now you can go to Dillards and get one!

I take solace in the fact that they haven't yet besmirched the exclusivity of the 9-fold, of which I proudly own several from the Private Stock label. Alas, it is only a matter of time until that too can be found at K-Mart during their blue light special.
post #58 of 127
I have many of the Kiton 7*like folds. Didn't we decide they were like double four folds a while back? No matter. To me it was about the extra quality and drape and nice weight. They seem to create a very nice knot. Many of the patterns are of a neat type which I find lasts through fashion trends.
post #59 of 127
I might add that several of my Kitons are lined but with the same silk as the facing. Very luxurious in effect. No interlining at all, just all silk.

I have also tried the Talbott's but they are much lighter and don't have the drape I like. They are true unlined ties but the point is not finished as neatly as I would like.
post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Krull View Post
Your attempt at humor however misplaced is quite droll. I do regret that if these Daniel Cremieux ties are true 7-folds that the mystique behind the 7-fold will diminish. That was the intent of my original post. For in much the same way as a BMW or Mercedez is now accessible to anyone with a job earning more than $10/hr, when something becomes readily obtainable by a broader array of people, it's inherent worth subsequently declines. Like most others on this forum, I take pride in my knowledge and appreciation of habiliments and it is frankly disturbing that an accessory that was once famed for its expense and exclusivity shall fall to a lesser perch. Alas, it is ignoble to desire what few already possess. It is a fault of mine I grant you, but I suspect I alone do not suffer from it.
OK so which banned user or sock puppet is this? This can't be real.
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