Toronto restaurant recommendation - Page 6

Can't we all just agree that it's the Midwest, and outside of a city or two, nobody gives a fuck?

I saw what you did there!

Yes, Toronto's relationship with the ROC ("rest of Canada" -- usually a term used to distinguish English speaking Canada from Quebec, but it fits here) is a fractured one. Your problem (well, one of them, at any rate), freshcut, is that you do not articulate very clearly how the various regions ("the hinterland" to Torontonians) despise Toronto for entirely different reasons. But like most Torontonians I know, you're likely tone-deaf to these variations because you will likely profess with pride your ignorance of rural Canada -- and that's a fuck of a lot of Canada about which to remain ignorant.

Just to make my own biases clear, I misspent a good deal of my youth in Toronto and environs from the early '80s to the mid-90's. For a while there I kept moving closer and closer to the city (Oakville, Clarkson, Port Credit) but then changed course by settling permanently in Burlington. I think Toronto remains alluring to the young, but as a middle-aged father of two children under 7, I say you can keep it. I live on the GO line, if there is ever anything happening in Toronto that I just cannot miss -- such events grow fewer and fewer with each passing year. Many of my friends (and also my banker brother) have chosen to migrate to the city (Lawrence Park, primarily) and we carry on a playful dialogue along the lines of "Toronto is a Liberal haven of pinkos with gay pride parades every week/ the 905 is populated with mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Conservative throwbacks". It's all in fun on the surface, but there are some value-driven choices being made and that's what ultimately fuels the "Toronto sucks/ Toronto is 'world class'" (a term never uttered, I suspect, in NYC, London, Paris, Tokyo etc.) divide.

So, have a happy New Year -- even if it must be spent in Toronto ...

I'm a little bored tonight, or, possibly the wine and port. That said, Burlington's even worse than TO. And where I live, worse than that. Back to Scaramouche and my ability to offer a valid assessment. I have been there three times, the first, as 30th anniversary dinner for my parents. A gelatinous amuse bouche, pretentious service, and main course worthy of Jack Astors (salmon and lamb). The 2nd and 3rd time there was as guest for business. Much of the same. I guess, about $1800 in all, which allows me an opinion. Canoe, North 44, Auberge du Pommier I have found to be superior in every way. Of course, none match Le Francais, La Grenouiile, Lutece, Daniel, Guy Savoy, Ducasse, etc. As for Toronto. I was just on Bloor St. today for the sales. For those not familiar with Hogtown, you could call it Madison very light. The service at Holt Renfrew (Canada's flagship upper echelon department store) was so dreadful, even my young son, just starting a high school job in sales commented on it without any initial comment from me (OT, had a sniff of several Creeds -- hmmm?). But Bloor has a parochial charm, if not the pavement, which was Detroit worthy in its shittiness -- glad I had 17s on. Oh, and don't forget the 7, yes 7 accidents on one side of the Gardiner/QEW (a five mile stretch). Cuz we're also home of the world's fucking worst drivers. Real retards. Happy to the keep the entertainment going. Anyway, back to the port.>>>

That's what I and, by all accounts, the rest of the thread viewers want. He won't let us down. That boy loves the GTA.

Here's something to be going on with:

Orchestra - Mtl
Hockey - C'mon
Baseball -
Basketball - crap sport
Opera - TO
Ballet - TO
Art Gallery -- both suck
Museum - TO (the only one and it sucks)
Weather - Toronto (just)
Skiing - Mtl
Jazz -- tie
Rock - dunno
Cuisine - Mtl
Fine shopping - TO
Transit - Mtl
Drivers - C'mon!
Road system - Mtl, by far.
Road quality - TO
University - Mtl
High School TO/CEGEP Mtl - CEGEP is far superior
Airport - TO
Housing - Mtl
Taxes - TO
Wages - TO

Whooooa....you're just getting too clever for me.



I notice quite a few of you self-proclaimed therapists like to use the term..."the problem with..." & "your problem is..." a lot. Can I send you my address so you can bill me? I feel guilty.

Oh...but I am well versed in the many varied versions of Toronto hating (most of my childhood was not spent in Toronto, and I've traveled extensively). 905 hate is different from northern Ontario hate, which is different from rural Ontario hate (Prince Edward County doesn't officially hate Toronto...they just hate anybody in their county who isn't "county" ). Then there's First Nations hate. And that only takes care of a very generalized sweep Ontario.

Peggers aren't too infected, and I've never really detected anything particular about Prairie hate.

Alberta hate (the Bible Belt of Canada for those not in the know) is a mixture of just compulsory generalized "Canadian" Toronto hate (I believe this is subliminally taught in kindergarten in all non-Toronto schools), mixed with self-righteous born-again moral hate, separation anxiety hate (they think we are just too far away), and a healthy dose of selfish hate..."now that we are a "have" province, we don't want to give a penny to anyone else", including Albertans not worthy...hence the one-way bus tickets to Vancouver hilarity (this is not specialized Toronto hate really...more just non-Alberta hate). Edmonton is noticeably more easy going about this than Calgary (who thinks a rodeo is the cultural highlight of Canada).

B.C. hate is again some separation anxiety hate, plus they assume we are just all tight-assed Bay Street Bankers. Vancouverites tend to get really pissed off if they actually make it to Toronto to find this stereotype a myth, and there are actually way more bohemian, arty types here than BC, although reprogramming seems to be very easy once they return to Vancouver.

Maritimers don't tend to hate anybody. They may be a bit "wary" of Toronto, but would much rather just make fun of you. I find Maritimers expect to be a fish out of water when they hit the "Big Smoke" ahead of time, but also expect to get a job. (A big Canadian FAIL to you, if you haven't seen Goin' Down the Road).

There's a big difference between Quebec hate and Montreal hate. Quebec (sans Mtl) hates Toronto by default, as it's the alpha city of english Canada, in Ontario, which also contains the federal govt. This isn't silly hate like the rest of the country...it's some serious, emotional hate.

Montreal is not dominated by english hate (in fact, they have just as much of an issue with the rest of Que). Their superior attitude actually had some basis back a million years ago when the two cities actually had something resembling a rivalry going on. But Toronto has left them so far in the dust, that we just couldn't be bothered anymore. They still think this is going on of course, and realizing we just don't see them as any serious competition really gets them mad. To add insult to injury, we don't even make an effort to return the hate...we actually like Montreal and say so. The ones that see this as a condescending pat on the head get extra special crispy pissed. he he



I think you make for a fabulous suburbanite, but from where I'm standing...you can keep it too (and at least it isn't Milton or Brampton).

SField: Of course, the Jazz Festival. Duh! My father played enough gigs in it. Like I said, the port!! The Opera in Mtl is accompanied by the Metropolitain, which is not a patch on the excellent COC orchestra (built over the past twenty odd years by the late, great Richard Bradshaw). And the singers, from what my ex-students say, are generally good. Toronto can draw some good singers. But, I have seen 4 fabulous, world-class productions at the COC over the last couple of years. One was even accepted at the Edinburgh Festival, Robert Lepage's stunning verson of Bartok's Blackbeard's Castle (although directed by a Quebecer!). A singular event for a Canadian artistic outfit (other than the odd Euro ballet trip). Dutchman, Pelleas, and Erwartung were superb, too. But Blackbeard is still one of the greatest things I've experienced. The above matched the best of the Lyric. The COC is not consistently on par with the two you cite, though. Love the Met.

Don't you get tired? Ever?


Yea...cause they're just so well known for dreadful service there. ha ha ha

You should have phoned ahead and told them who you are...I'm sure they would have the closed the store down (on Boxing Day), so you could do some private shopping...I'm sure the staff would prefer it to the Boxing Day crowds. And I'm sure they would have plenty of complimentary "Wine & Port" on hand so you could feel right at home.



A chip off the 'ole block eh? How wonderful

Let me tell you something...if you don't think any sales staff couldn't smell a shitty attitude like yours from a mile away, then you are as delusional as you seem. Would also explain your perception of bad service at restaurants normally known for good service.



Oh right...the sidewalk. Cause I noticed the sidewalks on Madison the last time I was there were just "world class". ha ha ha

They are actually prepping that street for the $20 million sidewalk improvement project...already u/c at Yonge. Be sure to drop by next Boxing Day to give us your opinion (or you can just give it now, as I think we know it's a forgone conclusion).

Seriously though, I find the shopping environment of Yorkville village considerably more charming than most north american "upscale" districts.




Yea...Montreal is a nice jazz town for 10 days out of the year...Toronto is a great jazz town 365 days of the year (without even counting its multiple jazz festivals). The fact that you need to watch reruns of the festival until the next one comes around is funny (and sad at the same time).

Are you Diefenbaker's love child? Just wondering?

No...but you're warm.

I'm Maggie & Castro's secret bastard.

Here's my mommy being a good Canadian, and shown' her beaver....

Oh, I think "love" has never had anything to do with his life, nor ever been part of it. It would explain much of what we read, wouldn't it?

It was mentioned that Toronto has a better ballet company. Perhaps that's true for classical stuff (though NBoC has had its share of trouble), but Montreal has more interesting and equally accomplished dance companies: Les Grands Ballets Canadiens and La La La Human Steps, to name two.

--Andre