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Nyt: luxury watches are back - Page 2

post #16 of 27
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Franck Muller
Franck Muller is a fashion watch, not a "serious" timepiece. Celebrities and celebrity-wannabees are often seen wearing FM, unless they're Hip Hop thugs wearing something tacky from Jacob The Jeweler. FM is overpriced and overhyped, using a POS movement.
post #17 of 27
Apologies about the long post. In evaluating watches, one should not forget the difference approaches taken by the various watch companies in sourcing the movements from the outside (known as an ebauche) and making the movements in-house.  That's like car makers using their own engines or sourcing engines from outside manufacturers. For obvious reasons, making movements in-house is much more difficult than buying ebauches from other companies (such as ETA and F. Piguet) because of the research, development, tooling and training involved.   Some watch companies with in-house movements include Girrard Perregaux, JLC, Rolex, Patek, A. Lange and Glashutte Original.   True in-house manufacturers are very rare these days because invariably some parts (such as springs) are purchased from the outside.  Believe it or not, Seiko is the only company where every single part of a watch is made in-house although I don't think they raise their own cows and crocodiles for straps. :-) If a movement is sourced from the outside (such as Panerai, IWC, Franck Muller, Nomos, Omega, Tag, etc), it is not to say that the product is inferior.  Using well tested and proven movements with hundreds of thousands of units sold is a good guarentee of reliability and parts availability. In fact, companies such as IWC and Omega makes extensive modifications to the purchased movements and makes them more robust and reliable.  The co-axial movement, for example, is specific to Omega. And then there is the finish of a movement and the various parts. P.S. The_Foxx, the JLC Reverso is an excellent choice. Enjoy it in good health.
post #18 of 27
Timekeeping, I agree that the fact that sourcing movements from outside does not necesarily make a watch of lesser quality. But one thing...I have always been told that Rolex gets its movements from outside. Then again, I will not claim to be an authority on watches.
post #19 of 27
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Top watchmakers include: A Lange and Sohne Audemars Piguet Breguet Franck Muller Girard Perregaux Jaeger-LeCoultre Patek Philippe
Just curious, do you think these deserve a spot in the top? -Vacheron Constantin -Parmigiani Fleurier (though very new, he still produces some very nice watches). And at $40-60k for higher end models w/o diamonds, I wouldn't call them cheap. -Blancpain I consider these following makers 'second from the top'. What do you think? -IWC -Baume & Mercier -Zenith -Panerai -Cartier -Piaget
post #20 of 27
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Parmigiani Fleurier (though very new, he still produces some very nice watches).  And at $40-60k for higher end models w/o diamonds, I wouldn't call them cheap.
Dear goodness, is that for real? Even my boss's Mercedes is not that expensive.
post #21 of 27
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Some of the new Pateks with ridiculous numbers of complications seem antithetical to that for which Patek once stood (i.e. elegant, understated simplicity).  I don't understand this trendy fascination with huge and/or over-complicated (pun intended) watches.  Give me a Patek Calatrava any day.
I like the Calatravas quite a bit.  Simple, elegant, and understated.  However, given their 'simplicity', I do not see how someone can spend $16,000 on a watch like that.  I'm not a huge fan of watches with many complications, but I think that the moon phase chart adds a unique characteristic to the watch; more so than say a chronograph.  However, I can't imagine spending $160,000 on their flagship model.
I'm not sure which "flagship model" you are talking about. Patek's top of the line model, the Sky Moon Tourbillon, sells for about $750,000 and there is a multi-year waiting list for them. It is indeed a bloated, overcomplicated thing, more of a curiousity than a wrist watch. However, the Patek Celestial, model, which sells for about $150,000 is, in my opinion, a thing of beauty, and is relatively simple and sleek. I have a Calatrava. To my mind, it is hard to find a more elegant watch at any price. Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned. A beautiful amalgam of classic design, engineering, and traditional craftsmanship. I wish that more things in this world were made with such quality and attention to detail.
post #22 of 27
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post #23 of 27
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I'm not sure which "flagship model" you are talking about.  Patek's top of the line model, the Sky Moon Tourbillon, sells for about $750,000 and there is a multi-year waiting list for them.  It is indeed a bloated, overcomplicated thing, more of a curiousity than a wrist watch.   However, the Patek Celestial, model, which sells for about $150,000 is, in my opinion, a thing of beauty, and is relatively simple and sleek.   I have a Calatrava.  To my mind, it is hard to find a more elegant watch at any price.  Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned.  A beautiful amalgam of classic design, engineering, and traditional craftsmanship.  I wish that more things in this world were made with such quality and attention to detail.
Ok, I was speaking about the 'lower-priced' model that sells for about $150k and is more readily available to the consumer. Is the Sky Moon Tourbillion the reversible-dial model that features the sky chart on the back and on the front has the four dials of day, tare, year, month, and moon phase? That watch is truly a masterpiece, I guess I just didn't think of it as the flagship (more like a rare artifact) because the production numbers are so low and it isn't a watch that one can simply buy when they want it.
post #24 of 27
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I have a Calatrava.  To my mind, it is hard to find a more elegant watch at any price.  
Let's see: 1. JLC Master Ultra Thin.   2. AP Jules Audemars simple handwind. 3. VC Malte simple handwind. 4. Chopard LUC 1.96. 5. IWC Portugieser automatic. 6. Blancpain Villeret automatic. 7. Lange 1815. 8. Any number of simple handwind or automatic Piagets. Of course, there are plenty of others which would fit the bill.  The above are a few off the top of my head.  Best bang for the buck would have to be the JLC.
Not to mention any Breguet except for the Transatlantic, Type XX and Marine models. May I also suggest the Cartier Santos? Cartier is often dismissed as jewellery but their mechanical watches are quite nice (especially the "private collection").
post #25 of 27
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Franck Muller is a fashion watch, not a "serious" timepiece.  ... FM is overpriced and overhyped, using a POS movement.
Will you share the basis for these assertions?
post #26 of 27
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Franck Muller is a fashion watch, not a "serious" timepiece.  ... FM is overpriced and overhyped, using a POS movement.
Will you share the basis for these assertions?
This is a good summary of the attitude of many watch connoisseurs toward Franck Muller.  The recent controversy regarding Muller's possible use of Russian movements in his watches only adds more fuel to the fire. That said, Muller's use of tonneau cases and exploding numerals is certainly eye catching, and if I was looking for a "bling bling" watch to impress women in a club, Muller would be at the top of my list.
post #27 of 27
The brash young lion infuriates the old.
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